Visiting Another School of the MA!!

[sensei8]

Came across the below question today while I was on FB, and I thought that it might make a decent topic to converse about here at KF.

Question: do you bow at the door when you enter and leave while paying a visit to another dojo?

No, I don't always do, nor do I always expect it from my visitors, MAists or not!!

The Pageantry of the Dojo, as I've labeled it, has to end!! While I respect the meanings behind why MAists bow, it's a foreign culture to me because I'm not from a culture that regularly practices bowing outside of a dojo/dojang/club/etc..

While I don't always bow in and out of a dojo I'm visiting, there are other tangible ways to show respect than bowing. Respect has to be earned, not given blindly!!

Imho!!

Your thoughts?

[Alan Armstrong]

I've attended a MA school that shook hands and hugged after class, they never bowed in or out from class.

Different stokes for different folks (boxers tap knuckles) as other styles bow and kiss their belts after class.

A karate bow can be a sign of respect and also a self defense move as many styles and systems dissimulate this aspect very well.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Nope I don't bow at the door when I enter or leave. I know a couple of people that do it. But there is no steadfast rule for it at my dojo.

When it comes to visiting a dojo, I bow as I enter & leave as I assume that is the custom in said dojo.

Usually I bow to go onto the mats and when I leave them. This alongside when I bow into/out of class and bowing for partner work.

Although my BJJ club, did 2 bows (1 start of class & 1 at end), then fist bumps at the end.

[singularity6]

I bowed at the door of my friend's school. Apparently that wasn't where I should bow... They had a line drawn on the outside of the mats where you're supposed to bow.

I have mixed feelings about dojo traditions. Bowing is big in Asian cultures, but nearly non-existent in most western countries. We also seem to take time to learn a few words and phrases in the language of our style's origin. Overall, it seems like we vacuously adopt parts of culture without fully understanding the meanings of what we're adopting, or if we're doing any of this correctly. This begs the question: Are we really honoring anything if we don't fully understand what it is that we are attempting to do? Or could it be taken as an insult?

Please note: I've never had an instructor from the MA's country of origin. In many of the styles that I've trained, neither has the instructor!

[hammer]

I'm guessing that this is when one shows up as a guest and not in any capacity as a student...

In that case I don't bow but I may have unintentionally done so in the past.

[Spartacus Maximus]

This issue is a simple question of mutual respect. When one is a guest in another person’s space, it should follow that one behaves according to that places rules or conventions. When these are not clear or unknown, asking about what is expected is the right thing to do.

[Wastelander]

I do, and although I'm sure I have bowed "incorrectly" at various dojo, nobody has ever said anything about it to me. We also don't say anything if visitors at our dojo don't bow where/when we do. The intent of the bow is the same, whether it's at the door, at a designated mat, in a certain direction, etc.

[skullsplitter]

We don't bow at the door at our school. My son does do so at other schools if that's what they do. We try to respect and follow the school's etiquette as much as possible.

[MatsuShinshii]

I bow at the dojo door, to the instructor, and to the founders.

Too often people think this is belittling or find it offensive but it's merely a way to extend respect and courtesy. I appreciate that respect is earned however I feel respect is given until you prove it is unwarranted. There is nothing wrong with giving others a modicum of respect until they prove they are unworthy of it.

In a new Dojo I observe the following;

Bowing at the door is nothing more than showing courtesy to a new group and instructor. This is not a belittling action but merely a show of thanks for allowing you to participate.

Bowing to an instructor you do not know is extending a slight sign of respect or appreciation for allowing you to participate in his/her class. Again until proved unworthy.

Bowing to the founder(s) is in my mind the right action and should be heart felt. These are the people that made it possible for you to learn the art in the first place. My utmost respect is given to the founder.

In my Shinshii's Dojo I bow at the door, to him and to the founders and it is all about showing respect. Respect for years of passing on knowledge to me and to others selflessly for no other reason but to pass on the art. For this I definitely show the utmost respect and feel it and have never felt belittled by doing so. It is definitely warranted.

[JR 137]

If I visit a dojo, I bow when I walk in as a sign of respect. For the reasons MatsuShinshii mentions- I’ll show respect until I feel I should revoke it.

I won’t bow and say Osu as I do at my dojo, because I’ve learned that some groups don’t know that, don’t do that, and/or take offense to it. I just bow and say Osu in my head Unless of course I know they say it, such as an affiliated dojo or a Kyokushin dojo. I made the mistake of saying Osu at an Okinawa dojo once (part of Seiyu Oyata’s RyuTe Renmei group). The sensei smiled and said “I take it you’re a Kyokushin guy.” He wasn’t offended, but I could tell that just wasn’t done in his dojo.

Respect is absolutely something that is to be earned. But that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t initially show it. It’s a 2 way street - show it, and the person will often show it in return. Especially if you’re walking into someone else’s house.