head contact

[singularity6]

First yes we allow contact to the head.

Now I have to ask a possible dumb question; why is it that so many disqualify the use of hands to the head but they allow kicks?

I can generate, or used to be able to generate, a heck of a lot more power in my kicks than I ever could with my hands. The legs have the strongest muscles and are capable of generating tremendous power. That and like a golf club it generates more power at impact due to the speed at the foot due to the follow through. Why then is it ok to kick someone in the head but not punch to the head?

In the TKD that I have done, by not allowing hand strikes to the head, we avoid the match becoming a boxing match. While kicks can be much stronger, it takes considerably more skill to get good at scoring with head kicks, and they won't usually come in with the frequency that hand techniques to the head would.

I get why some have banned it based on explanations but for me I still say I'd rather get clocked by a fist than by a kick. In all the time I kickboxed as a kid I never once got knocked out by a punch but got my bell rung by two kicks. I get what you're saying, but for me I just don't get it, but I haven't been in the tournament circuit since I was a young man so maybe things have changed.

I'm sure gear has changed over the years but the thing I also always found a bit funny is that the hands had pillows on them and the feet had very thin padding with no padding on the bottom. This was Kick Boxing of course.

This always made me laugh a little to myself because the hands are covered with a good deal of padding, obviously based on weight classes, so much so that you had to basically put everything behind the punch to actually effect much less knock someone out but the feet are all but unprotected. Based on my personal experience, eating a heel hurts 100 times worse than eating a fluffy pillow and it makes you wonder why you're looking up at everyone and why your head feels like it's in a vise with a spike piercing your temples and base of your skull.

I understand the reasons but based on my personal experience this rule is backwards if you're worried about knockouts.

Knockouts are not good, but I don't think those are all we should be concerned about. Your brain will jiggle a bit each time you get knocked in the head, be it a fist, foot or anything else. Neither boxers nor football players take kicks to the head. Many of them may never be knocked out while training or competing, but both groups frequently suffer from CTE.

Please don't take this as me saying we should allow kicks to the head over punches. Personally, allowing full contact to the head is a bad idea, unless you want your egg scrambled.

[The Pred]

You know I always thought head contact was no big deal. (I think light is okay). but I'm not planning on being a professional fighter anytime soon. So why risk it.

[MatsuShinshii]

First yes we allow contact to the head.

Now I have to ask a possible dumb question; why is it that so many disqualify the use of hands to the head but they allow kicks?

I can generate, or used to be able to generate, a heck of a lot more power in my kicks than I ever could with my hands. The legs have the strongest muscles and are capable of generating tremendous power. That and like a golf club it generates more power at impact due to the speed at the foot due to the follow through. Why then is it ok to kick someone in the head but not punch to the head?

In the TKD that I have done, by not allowing hand strikes to the head, we avoid the match becoming a boxing match. While kicks can be much stronger, it takes considerably more skill to get good at scoring with head kicks, and they won't usually come in with the frequency that hand techniques to the head would.

I get why some have banned it based on explanations but for me I still say I'd rather get clocked by a fist than by a kick. In all the time I kickboxed as a kid I never once got knocked out by a punch but got my bell rung by two kicks. I get what you're saying, but for me I just don't get it, but I haven't been in the tournament circuit since I was a young man so maybe things have changed.

I'm sure gear has changed over the years but the thing I also always found a bit funny is that the hands had pillows on them and the feet had very thin padding with no padding on the bottom. This was Kick Boxing of course.

This always made me laugh a little to myself because the hands are covered with a good deal of padding, obviously based on weight classes, so much so that you had to basically put everything behind the punch to actually effect much less knock someone out but the feet are all but unprotected. Based on my personal experience, eating a heel hurts 100 times worse than eating a fluffy pillow and it makes you wonder why you're looking up at everyone and why your head feels like it's in a vise with a spike piercing your temples and base of your skull.

I understand the reasons but based on my personal experience this rule is backwards if you're worried about knockouts.

Knockouts are not good, but I don't think those are all we should be concerned about. Your brain will jiggle a bit each time you get knocked in the head, be it a fist, foot or anything else. Neither boxers nor football players take kicks to the head. Many of them may never be knocked out while training or competing, but both groups frequently suffer from CTE.

Please don't take this as me saying we should allow kicks to the head over punches. Personally, allowing full contact to the head is a bad idea, unless you want your egg scrambled.

After many years of training, I would now agree with your statement. In the past I felt that if it were not full on "real" full power it was fake. However the older you get the more your past injuries start to catch up with you and you start to realize the damage done.

However I would still not take pulling punches and kicks over controlled contact with proper protective gear. I guess what I'm saying is, we chose to train/study a combative art. In doing so we assume a certain degree of risk and accept that risk. Minimizing the risk is an intelligent mindset but removing it all together also removes many lessons that can not be learned by shadow boxing and pulling every punch/kick. You have to engage to understand key elements (how you will react/how your opponent reacts/ dealing with the wildness and unpredictability of your opponent/ gauging distance and timing/ learning how to stay in the pocket when the stress component is high/ learning to function under extreme stress/etc.)

Some will say that distance and timing can be learned point sparring and I can not deny that statement. However I would point out that when someone is coming at you for more than points the dynamic changes completely and so does your ability to adjust.

I think that minimizing risk and injury is a responsible thing but you can not remove it completely or the realism is removed with it along with the lessons that it teaches you.

[Alan Armstrong]

Is it possible to use controlled/pulled or light contact when using elbow and knee techniques when sparring?

Point fighting and full on fighting are two very different animals as one is a game of tag and the other is a proven way at causing and avoiding pain; which one is authentic and which one is fake?

[bushido_man96]

I think there has to be a balance in training. If you go full power with sparring partners all the time, you'll quickly run out of sparring partners. To minimize this, its important to also do focus mitt work, bag work, and things like that.

[singularity6]

I've had my glasses knocked off my face in class, and I've eaten a few heels, too. I have yet to receive a bruise above the shoulders from taking a hit while sparring! Fortunately, they have us lower belts sparring with black belts only, unless we do wear protective gear.

[hammer]

I think there has to be a balance in training. If you go full power with sparring partners all the time, you'll quickly run out of sparring partners. To minimize this, its important to also do focus mitt work, bag work, and things like that.

In the kyokushin dojo I train at, we do light contact 99% of the time. Makes sense to train that way for a few reasons:

• Minimizes risk of injuries
   
  Allows one to experiment without the concern (fear?) of getting hurt
  

Kicks to the head are OK and light head contact is also OK. Just enough to remind one to keep the hands up.

Had a session outside the dojo a few months ago that included kumite with folks from various dojos. Despite being told to keep it light, some either forgot or couldn't do it properly. Unfortunately I'm still recovering from a bruised/broken rib as a result of a well executed but full contact hiza mawashi geri.

[Alan Armstrong]

I think there has to be a balance in training. If you go full power with sparring partners all the time, you'll quickly run out of sparring partners. To minimize this, its important to also do focus mitt work, bag work, and things like that.

In the kyokushin dojo I train at, we do light contact 99% of the time. Makes sense to train that way for a few reasons:

• Minimizes risk of injuries
   
  Allows one to experiment without the concern (fear?) of getting hurt
  

Kicks to the head are OK and light head contact is also OK. Just enough to remind one to keep the hands up.

Had a session outside the dojo a few months ago that included kumite with folks from various dojos. Despite being told to keep it light, some either forgot or couldn't do it properly. Unfortunately I'm still recovering from a bruised/broken rib as a result of a well executed but full contact hiza mawashi geri.

When sparring out of the dojo and the rules and respect go out the widow; consider it as if walking out in to the real world.

Self Defense rule 101: Protect yourself %100, %100 of the time, even more so when the word "friendly" is used to entice you in to a fight.

You just have no idea what is going on in your opponent's head, perhaps he accidentally run over his favorite hunting dog, while in a rush to have a friendly bout with you!

[MatsuShinshii]

Is it possible to use controlled/pulled or light contact when using elbow and knee techniques when sparring?

Point fighting and full on fighting are two very different animals as one is a game of tag and the other is a proven way at causing and avoiding pain; which one is authentic and which one is fake?

I think it's obvious.

No offense but point sparring serves no purpose when training for actual conflict. It is detrimental because it instills muscle memory and does nothing in terms of teaching students how to transmit full power into an intended target.

Some might say that other forms of training are enough to serve this purpose like Makiwara or heavy bag training. But this is a stationary target that insures the same angle of contact repeatedly. In a real fight the target moves and the potential damage to ones own weapons by connecting on odd un-natural angles is another detriment.

Yes it's real in terms of it's actually a training method but in terms of teaching students actual fighting skills it is not.

And don't get me wrong, point sparring has it's place in sports and I have nothing against it for those that seek to win trophies. But it's not a real method of training when it comes to self defense. It teaches you to pull strikes and win points. There are no points in real life and the only thing you win is your life and the loser get's a ride to the hospital or the morgue.

Is it real? Yep. Is it effective in teaching someone to fight? Not in my opinion.

[MatsuShinshii]

I think there has to be a balance in training. If you go full power with sparring partners all the time, you'll quickly run out of sparring partners. To minimize this, its important to also do focus mitt work, bag work, and things like that.

In the kyokushin dojo I train at, we do light contact 99% of the time. Makes sense to train that way for a few reasons:

• Minimizes risk of injuries
   
  Allows one to experiment without the concern (fear?) of getting hurt
  

Kicks to the head are OK and light head contact is also OK. Just enough to remind one to keep the hands up.

Had a session outside the dojo a few months ago that included kumite with folks from various dojos. Despite being told to keep it light, some either forgot or couldn't do it properly. Unfortunately I'm still recovering from a bruised/broken rib as a result of a well executed but full contact hiza mawashi geri.

These are the risks we all accept when training in martial arts. Unfortunately there are those that take advantage of this and others don't know the meaning of or have no control.