Gankaku Sho

[David Miller]

Hello everyone.

So basically a couple of days ago i posted a new topic about basically me asking stuff about open tournaments. In the open tournament that i am gonna participate, underneath the participation form, it says WKF Rules Apply, but obviously it is not a WKF tournament its just that the rules of WKF applies. So my question was that can we do Gankaku Sho in an open tournament with rules like this? I know that its not an approved kata in the approved kata list of WKF, but the other day i saw this person wearing a red belt doing gankaku sho which means that it was an open tournament and his opponent was wearing a blue belt. Thanks

[sensei8]

If said kata is NOT on the approved WKF Shitei Kata list, then that said kata can't be executed. However, seeing that it's a open tournament, and even though they're following WKF rules and regulations, then if it was be for clarification sake, I'd contact the powers that be of the local tournament beforehand, and ask them straight out if that said kata is allowed before I'd assume anything. I believe that that open tournament either amended the WKF Shitei Kata list, at their own discretion, to admit the kata in question. OR...that competitor received a big fat ZERO for a score for executing a kata that's not approved. OR...that open tournament arbitrator circumvented the WFK Rules applied for unknown reasons; arbitrator's have the final say.

As far as one was wearing a Red, while the other was wearing a Blue belt are concerned, and seeing that the open tournament you're about to enter will be following WKF rules, these belt colors DO NOT REFLECT RANK of the competitor!!

Which I'm not proposing that you're not aware of how the WKF addresses the approved wearing of the Obi, specifically with Red/Blue.

And, in case you might not be aware of the reasoning behind the Blue/Red obi within the WKF, this might serve you...

The Red/Blue are identifiers of whom is whom.

Remember when at tournaments before venue's such as the WKF were held, and one of the competitors would have a red strip of cloth wrapped/tucked in the back of their belt? That cloth was the identifier of who is who.

That simplification of identifier turned into being the invention of one competitor wearing a Red belt and the other competitor wearing a Blue belt as a means of identifying one competitor from another within the competition ring.

Rika Usami, for example, who is a force to be reckoned within the WKF world, often wore either a Red or Blue belt while competing in any WKF event, and she's the furthest thing from being either a Red or Blue belt rank; if memories serve me, she's a Nidan under Inoue sensei.

[JR 137]

I hate the use of red belts in karate for anything other than signifying 9th or 10th dan.

I remember being at a tournament about 20 years ago. There was a "traditional Japanese karate" school who used red as a kyu rank. I've never seen any other Japanese nor Okinawan karate school use red as a kyu rank. We were sitting in the bleachers when about 20 ten year olds from that school came in wearing red belts. My sensei nudged me and quietly said "look at all the little grandmasters." We both chuckled and I replied "I'm glad I'm not in their division; I've got zero chance against a 10th degree black belt."

Your mind goes to strange places when you've competed all morning then sit and watch the kids for a few hours, waiting for the 3 kids from your dojo to finish up so you can go home.

[David Miller]

Come on guys, by red belt i meant you know how in open tournaments they wear red and blue belts?? Not in my dojo. We dont even have red belts. What i meant was in an open tournament a person was wearing a red belt and he did the kata.

[JR 137]

Come on guys, by red belt i meant you know how in open tournaments they wear red and blue belts?? Not in my dojo. We dont even have red belts. What i meant was in an open tournament a person was wearing a red belt and he did the kata.

We know that. Sorry for the sidetrack.

[mushybees]

I hate the use of red belts in karate for anything other than signifying 9th or 10th dan.

In wado ryu a red belt is 9th kyu

I've spoken with a few japanese instructors and a couple have said they find it amusing the way westerners romanticise and over ritualise some of the more trivial aspects of martial arts. The whole belt system was mentioned but they were far too polite to elaborate on others. I can only assume I'm guilty of them too whatever else they are

[David Miller]

Im not trying to be disrespectful but why is there a red belt debate going on? The question was can i do gankaku sho in tournament if wfk rules apply??

[JR 137]

Im not trying to be disrespectful but why is there a red belt debate going on? The question was can i do gankaku sho in tournament if wfk rules apply??

Thread discussions often drift in forums. Just like they do in face to face conversations.

Regarding if Gankaku Sho will be allowed in the tournament you're competing in, as sensei8 said, you should contact the tournament organizers. If we say yes it's allowed, and it isn't, what are you going to do? Will you say "a bunch of guys on karateforum.com told me I could do it"?If we say it's not allowed and someone else does it, will you tell them "a bunch of guys on karateforums.com said I can't do it"?

Ask the tournament organizers. They'll give you an accurate answer. The best we'd do is guess.

[Nidan Melbourne]

You should be able to do the kata itself as the WKF itself has stated that there are often different names for the same kata.

But you should contact the Tournament Organiser as to see if it is allowed with them, as often they may go by modified rules.

If it is an open tournament, where they are only using the rules and nothing else (i.e. the qualified referees) then you should be able to do that kata. But still worth checking, because it is better to find out beforehand over getting disqualified because you did a kata that wasn't permitted.

From a Quick Google Search; Gankaku Sho is labelled (i'm 60% sure on this; because it is not a Kata my particular Ryu-Ha has) as Gankaku (listed as Gankaku) in the Rules. Whereas Gankaku Dai is also called Chinto which is also listed in the rules (under Chinto).

Additionally; I have always known Gankaku Sho as "Gankaku" and Gankaku Dai as "Chinto". So it threw me when you called it Gankaku Sho.

I have competed in 1 tournament, where they used the WKF Rules and Officials but permitted any kata to be performed as long as it conformed to your particular School and Style.