Kumite. Limits?

[catlike]

We don't do a lot of sparring, but when I attend one of our larger seminars there is a tendency to have a kumite session, where you get 2 mins per opponent and keep rotating. As a low-kyu student I've seen short tempers, badly aimed kicks and very little in the way of proper techniques.

When engaging kumite, it seems most revert to body punches, front and side kicks and not much else. Punch, punch kick, etc. Why not Empi, Uraken, Shuto? Takedowns don't seem common, neither do proper blocking technique - it's all parried away rather than a full powerful block.

Is it because the techniques are too dangerous to use without lots of control? Is there a question I should be asking about what is and isn't acceptable in kumite before the session?

[Dani_001]

As a Karate practitioner (of Goju Ryu), I condition myself to fight what my style dictates. Which is close combat. Sometimes it's difficult to do this in kumite but it's not impossible. Learn to fight how you train and you will truly see the gem of your style.

I let the fighter come to me and I trap him.

[Wastelander]

What you are seeing is the natural disconnect between the Japanese-created long range kumite and the methods transmitted by the kata, which are (as Dani_001 suggests) intended for close range fighting. Enpi-uchi, shuto-uchi, some forms of uraken-uchi, takedowns, uke-waza, etc. are really meant for use when you are up close with your opponent, tangling your limbs with theirs. If you try to bounce in from long distance, tag your partner, and bounce back out before they can tag you back, you'll never have the opportunity (or need) to use these methods. They aren't necessarily more dangerous, provided your partners know what you plan to use in sparring, and know how to react safely.

Since kumite, in training, is meant to be a training method, try not to worry about winning and losing--there are no winners or losers in training, as it is not a competition. Tell your partner that you plan to try working with close range methods, give some examples, and then work toward that goal. You will probably do very poorly with this, at first. The more you do it, though, the better you will get.

[MatsuShinshii]

IMHO I think that Wastelander and Dani-001 are spot on with their explanations.

[Dani_001]

I'd also like to add that kumite from a long range perspective has it's uses and that is to develop speed.

Much like Rafael Aghayev. He is a Shotokan practitioner so naturally he is a long range fighter, but his speed is amazing.

Wastelander is saying that there are no winners in kumite while in class and this is true. Rather use the sessions indoors to focus and develop. If you going to want to win then you will not mature in your style or gain deeper understanding into how to perform the technique correctly.

[Iskrax]

During competitions, some federations forbid some techniques to be used because they can damage your opponent (I am talking about point, sport karate).

[Spartacus Maximus]

In kumite it is possible to practice each and every technique and movement learned. This is kumite as a training exercise as it is intended. Now as far as so-called competitive kumite, which is a regulated and codified sport, then of course there will be limits. These limits are determined by whatever entity has authority over the specific competition.

Training in karate for self defense and training for sport kumite are two different paths and it is up to the karateka to know and choose which one to walk.

[sensei8]

Imho,

The only limits with Kumite is it not being trained in just as much as Kihon and Kata!! The lack of Kumite training, it just being, as essential as Kihon and Kata, is akin to one not learning how to swim while treading in the deep end of a pool.

Things learned in Kihon and Kata AND Kumite are intertwined across the board, and with these not being equally trained in, is akin to having one leg being quite shorter than the other of a stool; quite wobbly, and unstable.

One can't have one without having all three!!

Kumite in itself, does have its limitations, however, the limitations are more internal than external. Just how one is taught Kumite is vital as it being taught in the first place. Limitations are derived from their Sensei/Instructor's lack of knowledge/experience; the student body is the product of their Sensei/Instructor.

Watch the most advanced student of a Sensei, and you'll get a glimpse of the Sensei/Instructor. This is part of the saying that says that one should look for a instructor and not the style. Style branding is just that, nothing scientific about it, what you see is what you get.

My mindset concerning Kumite is that one can't ever not get enough; the more, the better, just as long as the CI is of that rare of rarities quality wise.

Limitations are abound within the MA, but overcoming them makes all of the differences!!

[MatsuShinshii]

Imho,

The only limits with Kumite is it not being trained in just as much as Kihon and Kata!! The lack of Kumite training, it just being, as essential as Kihon and Kata, is akin to one not learning how to swim while treading in the deep end of a pool.

Things learned in Kihon and Kata AND Kumite are intertwined across the board, and with these not being equally trained in, is akin to having one leg being quite shorter than the other of a stool; quite wobbly, and unstable.

One can't have one without having all three!!

Kumite in itself, does have its limitations, however, the limitations are more internal than external. Just how one is taught Kumite is vital as it being taught in the first place. Limitations are derived from their Sensei/Instructor's lack of knowledge/experience; the student body is the product of their Sensei/Instructor.

Watch the most advanced student of a Sensei, and you'll get a glimpse of the Sensei/Instructor. This is part of the saying that says that one should look for a instructor and not the style. Style branding is just that, nothing scientific about it, what you see is what you get.

My mindset concerning Kumite is that one can't ever not get enough; the more, the better, just as long as the CI is of that rare of rarities quality wise.

 

Limitations are abound within the MA, but overcoming them makes all of the differences!!

To the bold type above... Spot on.

[Safroot]

Just how one is taught Kumite is vital as it being taught in the first place. Limitations are derived from their Sensei/Instructor's lack of knowledge/experience; the student body is the product of their Sensei/Instructor.

It might seem to be a silly question but do the instructors teach Kumite ?! How they should teach it because in both dojos I have attended they just say Kumite time get your gloves on and start 1 or 2 min rounds .... that's it, is that how it's supposed to be ?!