Changes that effect traditions.

[MatsuShinshii]

I can understand why there are some who don't wish to have children training in the dojo. But on the same hand it limits the potential for those wanting to train at your dojo.

I personally feel like the board should NOT put a requirement on how many juniors you take on board. However you can have juniors classes and progress to more if numbers are sufficient.

You do not need to lower standards to cater for the parents of the children. If you set the minimum of 18 to grade to shodan, you can promote younger students to Junior Black Belt Status and if you wish you can grade them to junior dan grades (which can be seen as a 1/2 grade) and when they turn 18 they get graded to full shodan.

I know a lot of others have junior black belts and I see the point of view however it kills me to see kids running around with BB's on their waste when I know they could never measure up to the real grade. I get that it's not the same as Shodan but I think it's the perception that bothers me and others in my organization.

This has been brought to a vote several times by our president but has been shot down every time.

I guess this is part of my old time thinking that I just can not get past. I was adamantly apposed to the whole concept but after reading others reasonings behind it I can see their points. However for me, I just can not bring myself to give a child a BB. It's just not in me.

I have nothing against those that do anymore but it's just a personal thing for me. However that does not mean my association will not eventually pass this practice.

After I found out what ShodanHo was it took a few minutes to catch my breath at this suggestion. However I am told that the student does not wear a black belt but a different belt for this grade so I find little harm but do not understand why it would even be needed as we have utilized Ikkyu since I started and it worked out just fine. I guess just a way to add more belts to comply with the masses. I still don't get it but I'm trying to see the value in these things, just having culture shock I guess.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I can understand why there are some who don't wish to have children training in the dojo. But on the same hand it limits the potential for those wanting to train at your dojo.

I personally feel like the board should NOT put a requirement on how many juniors you take on board. However you can have juniors classes and progress to more if numbers are sufficient.

You do not need to lower standards to cater for the parents of the children. If you set the minimum of 18 to grade to shodan, you can promote younger students to Junior Black Belt Status and if you wish you can grade them to junior dan grades (which can be seen as a 1/2 grade) and when they turn 18 they get graded to full shodan.

I know a lot of others have junior black belts and I see the point of view however it kills me to see kids running around with BB's on their waste when I know they could never measure up to the real grade. I get that it's not the same as Shodan but I think it's the perception that bothers me and others in my organization.

This has been brought to a vote several times by our president but has been shot down every time.

I guess this is part of my old time thinking that I just can not get past. I was adamantly apposed to the whole concept but after reading others reasonings behind it I can see their points. However for me, I just can not bring myself to give a child a BB. It's just not in me.

I have nothing against those that do anymore but it's just a personal thing for me. However that does not mean my association will not eventually pass this practice.

After I found out what ShodanHo was it took a few minutes to catch my breath at this suggestion. However I am told that the student does not wear a black belt but a different belt for this grade so I find little harm but do not understand why it would even be needed as we have utilized Ikkyu since I started and it worked out just fine. I guess just a way to add more belts to comply with the masses. I still don't get it but I'm trying to see the value in these things, just having culture shock I guess.

To the bolded above, can you please elaborate on it please?

Yes holding a Black Belt does convey a message to others that they know how to protect themselves and do so competently. But let me put this to you; what if all martial arts schools didn't use ranks, would those students measure in ability of the curriculum required?

When I grade students to Black Belt, and irregardless of age I do not promote them to that rank if I personally don't think 1) they deserve it and 2) Does this student have the technical ability of existing black belts within' the club.

You don't necessarily need to add more belts to it, because if you run a Junior Black Belt Line they can wear the Black Belt w/ a White Stripe down the middle for their Dan Grades up until they reach your minimum age requirements to grade to Shodan-Ho or Shodan (whichever you grade to immediately from 1st Kyu).

At my current dojo we have 9 Kyu Grades + 11 Dan Grades (this includes Shodan-Ho), and any student eligible for promotion to Black Belt is able to. But they are expected to perform at that level and compare well to others.

[sensei8]

The wonderment of a governing body; so precise, yet so rattled, all at the same time!!

Changes are inevitable, especially when the head honcho is no longer active both on and off the floor. When the cat's away, the mouse do play!! Some changes are solid, while others are way out in outer space, and one just has to scratch their head and find a wall somewhere and bang your head against that wall over and over in total disbelieve.

IS THE VOTE UNANIMOUS OR IS IT MAJORITY??

What's you exact position on the board?? Are you the Chair??

For example, I'm the Kaicho of the Hombu/SKKA, and in short, the buck stops with me because I'm the Chair. Many of our voting parameters only have me vote to break tied votes, while other voting parameters, only my vote is part of the total voting, however, we do NOT allow proxy voting ever!!

If a vote requires unanimous, then that makes the outcome frustrating, but exacting. How so? If, for example, I don't want something to happen, then all I have to do is vote against the majority, and that vote is tabled, and then killed for another time in the future.

However, if the requires majority, then that makes whatever I want, seem null and voided, no matter what I want or don't want!! How so? If, for example, and within the SKKA's Higher Hierarchy we've 7 elected members on the Administrative Boards, 4 votes passes that type of voting parameter. That can be more frustrating because the "yeas", in this example, defeat the "nays", and in that, that which was voted upon becomes the letter of the law, and the chances of tabling that, especially if the vote was for or against an Amendment.

Does your governing body issue debates, for or against, whenever voting is on the open floor??

Things that are for debates, once the Chair has thrown it to the floor, can take a vote to the twilight zone. How so?? For example, if I don't want a vote to be heard and/or taken, all I have to do is debate, and stall the vote for an undetermined amount of time; aka, similar to a Filibuster, in all of its glory.

I mention, as well as ask, these questions because if you're against these changes, you have to fight against them until your last breath. Otherwise, what you want are only an opinion, and opinions are NOT facts, especially in a governing body.

Does your governing body use Robert's Rule of Order??

If not, then how can anything be solved within any governing body?!?

If so, then, as a suggestion, read Robert's Rule of Order cover to cover, and master it; know it better than the other members of your board because it can save you, and them, a lot of grieve across the board. How so?? EVERYONE on the board HAS TO be subjected to them without ambiguity and/or reservations without questions. Robert's Rule of Order can be quite daunting, and difficult to comprehend, as well as difficult to interpret, hence, I've lightly skimmed over what I'm speaking about when it comes to RRoO, and that's because, it's a lot to consume, and I don't want to minimize RRoO at all.

Quorums and Generals and so on and so forth are also ways to get Amendments passed or tabled or stalled or put away to combat inevitable changes that you might not agree with.

However, there must be a reason, otherwise, just to do something just because someone can, can drastically undermined the continuity of, not only the Student Body, but as well as the governing body.

Other than RRoO, might I suggest, "Who Moved My Cheese" by Spencer Johnson. This book speaks directly to the inevitable change across the board. This book changed my life about the inevitable change!! Perspectives use to be awash with me concerning inevitable changes, but that was no longer the case once I read that book.

Are your board voted upon??

If so, then they can be unseated with a vote of no confidence. If not, then the powers that be, are without reigns, and imho, that's very dangerous, to say the least.

Are your boards seated with term limits??

If so, then their time on the board is limited, and if your By-Laws dictate otherwise, board positions can't be re-elected for an undetermined time. If not, then they'll be there forever driving you and the Student Body and EVERYONE else crazy with this and that.

A lot of things for you to consider, outside of ranks and belts and this and that. That is why I approached my post here in the manner of which I did.

Your, imho, Shinshii's legacy is in your hands NOW and FOREVER!! How do you and the rest of the board feel about that, and are you all ready to uphold and support and defend his legacy, no matter what??

Change is inevitable!! But the validity of what your Shinshii had assembled is entrusted in you and your board, and all of the eyes of your Student Body are upon you all to do what is right for ALL CONCERNED and not just those on the board.

You all have the future in your hands, and how you address your future is how your Shinshii's legacies is valued by EVERYONE in your governing body!!

You want to add more belts?? Then do it!! But only if it's warranted to do so across the board!! You want to teach students under 16 years of old?? Then do it!! But only if it's warranted to do so across the board!! You want to do this and that?? Then do it!! But only if it's warranted to do so across the board.

Politics are that jagged and unsteady floor to stand upon within any MA governing body, and that beast must be controlled at all times or anarchy becomes the rule of the law; politics must be tailored at all times, and not just for a season.

Who's stronger?? You and your board, or the beast of politics?? Forgive me if I've come across strong, as it's never my intent, and I only want to offer some advice to you because I've a great deal of experience in the comings and goings of a MA governing body. I've been where you're at, and I've seen the walls coming down all around us, and I've heard the cries of the Student Body in the midst of insurmountable turmoil.

Politics can't be avoided, however, they can be minimized once everyone are on the same page of your Shinshii. Without him, and all that he's done, none of you would be where you are within your governing body, and more importantly, within the style that he's taught each and everyone of you!! His tradition is all of yours' tradition!!

You all, imho, just as I've/we've done to our Soke and Dai-Soke, owe him your most sincerest gratitude. Remember him, and you all be just fine!!

[MatsuShinshii]

I can understand why there are some who don't wish to have children training in the dojo. But on the same hand it limits the potential for those wanting to train at your dojo.

I personally feel like the board should NOT put a requirement on how many juniors you take on board. However you can have juniors classes and progress to more if numbers are sufficient.

You do not need to lower standards to cater for the parents of the children. If you set the minimum of 18 to grade to shodan, you can promote younger students to Junior Black Belt Status and if you wish you can grade them to junior dan grades (which can be seen as a 1/2 grade) and when they turn 18 they get graded to full shodan.

I know a lot of others have junior black belts and I see the point of view however it kills me to see kids running around with BB's on their waste when I know they could never measure up to the real grade. I get that it's not the same as Shodan but I think it's the perception that bothers me and others in my organization.

This has been brought to a vote several times by our president but has been shot down every time.

I guess this is part of my old time thinking that I just can not get past. I was adamantly apposed to the whole concept but after reading others reasonings behind it I can see their points. However for me, I just can not bring myself to give a child a BB. It's just not in me.

I have nothing against those that do anymore but it's just a personal thing for me. However that does not mean my association will not eventually pass this practice.

After I found out what ShodanHo was it took a few minutes to catch my breath at this suggestion. However I am told that the student does not wear a black belt but a different belt for this grade so I find little harm but do not understand why it would even be needed as we have utilized Ikkyu since I started and it worked out just fine. I guess just a way to add more belts to comply with the masses. I still don't get it but I'm trying to see the value in these things, just having culture shock I guess.

To the bolded above, can you please elaborate on it please?

Yes holding a Black Belt does convey a message to others that they know how to protect themselves and do so competently. But let me put this to you; what if all martial arts schools didn't use ranks, would those students measure in ability of the curriculum required?

When I grade students to Black Belt, and irregardless of age I do not promote them to that rank if I personally don't think 1) they deserve it and 2) Does this student have the technical ability of existing black belts within' the club.

You don't necessarily need to add more belts to it, because if you run a Junior Black Belt Line they can wear the Black Belt w/ a White Stripe down the middle for their Dan Grades up until they reach your minimum age requirements to grade to Shodan-Ho or Shodan (whichever you grade to immediately from 1st Kyu).

At my current dojo we have 9 Kyu Grades + 11 Dan Grades (this includes Shodan-Ho), and any student eligible for promotion to Black Belt is able to. But they are expected to perform at that level and compare well to others.

I knew this was not a popular subject that I should have avoided.

Ok here is my opinion on this subject. First I do not think it is just about learning and knowing the curriculum. Yes to have the knowledge is very important but this is only half of what I believe makes a Shodan.

Not going to be popular but here it goes... If I put a, lets say 14 year old, up against my other Shodans and Nidans they can not handle their own without these other men holding back. Our Shodan and Sandan tests are the hardest we give. This is for a few reason but at the top of the list is the fact that no one is awarded Shodan without deserving it and proving that they are worthy of the title. I have said I am old fashioned before so everyone should know this as I explain what I mean, our Shodan test takes a minimum of a day and a half but usually takes three due to exhaustion and the student needing the opportunity to pace themselves. The normal requirements are tested but instead of just showing that you know and are somewhat proficient in the Mudansha Kata, Kihon, Tuidi, Tegumi, and Kyusho techniques you must prove that you are very proficient. I hate the word mastered but this would be a very close word to describe our requirements. This consists of all curriculum from Hachikyu thru Sankyu and a decent proficiency for Nikyu and Ikkyu requirements. This tests the students knowledge and proficiency in the curriculum. To test the students skills and abilities in utilizing this knowledge we put them up against every Nikyu, Ikkyu, Shodan and Nidan in the school. They must be able to best all Nikyu, most Ikkyu and hold their own against Shodans and be able to hang in the fight against the Nidans.

Again I have yet to see a 14 year old able to measure up to what we consider worthy of the grade.

In my mind your students represent you as an instructor and more importantly represent the art. If I promoted a youngster to Shodan they would need to be able to hold their own against other equivalent grades no matter the size or age. We have everyone mix it up with everyone. There are no size/weight limits because you will not run into a 200lb hoodlum that walks away because you are only 100lbs. We do not make exceptions for age in that only 16 yr olds fight other 16 to 18 yr olds. They fight 20 to 40 yr olds. There are no rules on the street so why implement them in the dojo?

The bottom line is I do not feel that a child would be able to meet our criteria for promotion and I would never hand the belt to someone that I thought was not worthy.

Please do not take this as a judgement on you or any other school that awards BB's to youth. Requirements are different from school to school and from art to art. This is just my point of view and my requirements based on my Shinshii's requirements. They do not work for everyone and I realize there is merit in what you have stated above. However you asked me to clarify so I felt obligated to do so.

I also realize I have no filter or political correctness so please do not take what I have said as a condemnation although it might come across that way. I certainly do not mean it that way.

I respect your choice and reasons to do what you do as well as any other instructor here on KF. However these are my reasons and I stand by them based on my personal experiences as they have proven to be true in our particular art/school.

[The Pred]

[quote name="

I knew this was not a popular subject that I should have avoided.

Ok here is my opinion on this subject. First I do not think it is just about learning and knowing the curriculum. Yes to have the knowledge is very important but this is only half of what I believe makes a Shodan.

Not going to be popular but here it goes... If I put a' date=' lets say 14 year old, up against my other Shodans and Nidans they can not handle their own without these other men holding back. Our Shodan and Sandan tests are the hardest we give. This is for a few reason but at the top of the list is the fact that no one is awarded Shodan without deserving it and proving that they are worthy of the title. I have said I am old fashioned before so everyone should know this as I explain what I mean, our Shodan test takes a minimum of a day and a half but usually takes three due to exhaustion and the student needing the opportunity to pace themselves. The normal requirements are tested but instead of just showing that you know and are somewhat proficient in the Mudansha Kata, Kihon, Tuidi, Tegumi, and Kyusho techniques you must prove that you are very proficient. I hate the word mastered but this would be a very close word to describe our requirements. This consists of all curriculum from Hachikyu thru Sankyu and a decent proficiency for Nikyu and Ikkyu requirements. This tests the students knowledge and proficiency in the curriculum. To test the students skills and abilities in utilizing this knowledge we put them up against every Nikyu, Ikkyu, Shodan and Nidan in the school. They must be able to best all Nikyu, most Ikkyu and hold their own against Shodans and be able to hang in the fight against the Nidans.

Again I have yet to see a 14 year old able to measure up to what we consider worthy of the grade.

In my mind your students represent you as an instructor and more importantly represent the art. If I promoted a youngster to Shodan they would need to be able to hold their own against other equivalent grades no matter the size or age. We have everyone mix it up with everyone. There are no size/weight limits because you will not run into a 200lb hoodlum that walks away because you are only 100lbs. We do not make exceptions for age in that only 16 yr olds fight other 16 to 18 yr olds. They fight 20 to 40 yr olds. There are no rules on the street so why implement them in the dojo?

The bottom line is I do not feel that a child would be able to meet our criteria for promotion and I would never hand the belt to someone that I thought was not worthy.

Please do not take this as a judgement on you or any other school that awards BB's to youth. Requirements are different from school to school and from art to art. This is just my point of view and my requirements based on my Shinshii's requirements. They do not work for everyone and I realize there is merit in what you have stated above. However you asked me to clarify so I felt obligated to do so.

I also realize I have no filter or political correctness so please do not take what I have said as a condemnation although it might come across that way. I certainly do not mean it that way.

I respect your choice and reasons to do what you do as well as any other instructor here on KF. However these are my reasons and I stand by them based on my personal experiences as they have proven to be true in our particular art/school.[/quote]

So how does the 18, 115 ib female fair against the 32 year old 255 pounder?

[JR 137]

I'm not good at cutting and pasting multiple quotes, so bear with me...

I agree with your views on junior black belts. No matter how hard I try to accept it and how good the arguments are for having them, I just can't justify it. Being a grade 5-8 science teacher, I have several students who are junior black belts in a few different arts. This sums up my feelings about it best - for every test, I play a review game the day before. Students get answers correct, they advance in belt rank. I follow Seido's white-blue-yellow-green-brown-black order, then award dan ranks. It's a great game and my students love it. When a student gets to their black belt question, I tend to make it difficult. I often get "he's already a real black belt!" To which I struggle not to say "he's 10, there's no way he's a real black belt." I can't help it, it's just how I feel.

That ties in to my other thoughts on your dilemma...

Black belt should be a sacred thing, in a way. Yes, it's just a belt, but it's so much more too. There needs to be integrity in setting the standards, testing, and awarding dan ranks. Shortening the time it takes to achieve it by cutting back the curriculum hurts the integrity of it. If someone meets the standards set by your Shinshii in less time than the norm, then so be it. But if they don't meet those standards, then go back and train some more. I'm not the firmest believer in minimum time in grade, but at the same time there's no substitute for experience.

Watering down the curriculum by lowering the standards for shodan in an effort to "modernize" really hurts the organization's integrity. Black belts are the model of the school. Lowering those standards to "modernize" is putting the rank up for sale. No other way to put it. It's not being earned the way your Shinshii intended it to be earned. Better yet, it's not being earned they way your Shinshii demanded it to be earned. He had the dan candidate's teacher sit in on the test, and for very good reason. The teacher was held accountable for the student's performance, good, bad, and everything in between. What would he say to lowering the standards in order to modernize? I'm sure he wouldn't even hear the person finish the sentence.

Just my opinions. I'm a 40 year old old-school guy.

Edited January 10, 2017 by JR 137

[Tempest]

I gotta say, the more I read, the more I am with Matsu on this one. My base art, Judo, requires you to be at least 16 to be a Shodan, and that is for a national medalist. 17 otherwise. No exceptions on that one.

There is more to being a black belt than having a crisp looking punch.

You get rank for knowledge, experience, and the ability to execute. Youth, while a great thing, is very much a bar to 2 of those things. No matter how pretty it looks, until someone has there full growth, they cannot execute certain techniques quite right under pressure. Even if they are a naturally gifted and hard working athlete, it just won't work. Additionally, experience is more than just time in the dojo. A certain degree of maturity is expected of a black belt, and no matter how talented they are or mature "for their age" that they are, a 12 year old is not likely to have such maturity. It can only come with time and experience.

[MatsuShinshii]

IS THE VOTE UNANIMOUS OR IS IT MAJORITY??

Majority. There are 8 instructors that sit on the board. All have 1 vote each. If the vote leans 5 to 3 either way it is enacted or rejected.

What's you exact position on the board?? Are you the Chair??

In order to answer this I will have to fill you in on how we became a board ran association.

As you know our Shinshii retired a few years back. At that time he had three (used to be 4 senior students but 1 passed 8 years ago) senior students or as he put it in-line students. I was number three in rank and number two in time of the three.

At the time the association was in an up roar and many where fighting over who would be the successor. To me this did not make sense as I thought he would naturally hand it down to the first in-line. I cared little for the bickering and as usual concerned myself with teaching and my research.

Rumor had it that Shinshii was not going to pass the association down to the 1st in-line and due to this he left the association before the anouncement was made. Due to this Shinshii upset the entire student body by asking me to take the reins instead of the 2nd in-line. I of course turned this appointment down due to lack of rank (Rokudan) and for the fact that I knew this would topple the association. I also felt I could not fill Shinshii's shoes. This turned out to be a terrible mistake but that is another story as we ended up loosing students/instructors in mass.

Instead of offering the position to the 2nd in-line he decided to create a board of instructors. We never had a board before this unless you count the position of treasurer and Shinshii as a board.

He placed me as the "instructors instructor" so to speak, and put me in charge of curriculum, history, applications and testing and made me the president of the board. He bestowed the title of Soshi (to which I had no idea what it meant since this is not a term we use but he told me it meant most knowledgeable instructor or head instructor). He placed the 2nd in-line as the VP who latter went the way of the 1st in-line and was replaced. He placed an instructor as secretary and treasurer and the last two as just board members with no responsibilities except to assist us and attend meetings and cast their votes. Making a total of 6 instructors. He further established a rule that each instructor on the board would over see "x" number of instructors/schools and their students and would represent them in the voting process. It was set up that every 2 years the student body can vote to replace or retain said board members.

To further explain; if a item is up for a vote an email goes out to all schools outlining the issue at hand. The instructor then talk to their senior students and contact their board instructor and tell them if it is a yea or nae vote. What should happen from that point is the instructor compiles the votes along with his and votes according to the majority. This seldom happens as I have heard the rumblings and complaints of other instructors charges.

So skipping ahead to 2 years ago the 1st in-line and 2nd in-line returned to the association. Due to the fact that the 1st in-line has the highest grade (Hachidan) and the 2nd in-line had the second highest grade (Nanadan) the board voted by a majority to place them both on the board. I was happy as a lark to step down as president as I have a full time job, several schools to oversee and test, and my own students not to mention a family and hobbies I had not been able to do for some time.

The board took a vote and the 1st in-line was made president the 2nd in line was made VP and I maintained my position of being in charge of curriculum, history, applications and testing. We actually maintained the other two bringing our count to 8.

Now to answer your question my exact position is one of 8 chairs. No more power and no less than any of the other chairs.

Does your governing body issue debates, for or against, whenever voting is on the open floor??

Unfortunately no. It was never set up this way. It is on the honor system or is supposed to be. No one can keep an issue from entering for a vote. Believe me a wish we had a "that's stupid" clause where we could just move on instead of wasting time on issues no one will pass. It's a good thing 90% of the time because anyone can bring an issue to a vote which means the entire student body has a voice. However there are times, that last 10%, that you shake your head and ask yourself or the member next to you why would anyone even ask this of us.

I mention, as well as ask, these questions because if you're against these changes, you have to fight against them until your last breath. Otherwise, what you want are only an opinion, and opinions are NOT facts, especially in a governing body.

Well the way we have to fight against them is debate and the fact that the board is pretty evenly split between traditional and modern. Basically a stalemate. If something is to pass one of the sides must cross over and vote for or against an issue. If not it stays stagnant.

Does your governing body use Robert's Rule of Order??

No. I have never heard of this but I will be looking it up. Thank you.

Are your board voted upon??

Yes. Every two years. Which is what worries me.

I personally feel that our P has sour feelings about Shinshii's decisions and a concerted effort in the guise of increasing numbers has been pushed forward since he was placed on the board. The president has personally put forth issues that would make Shinshii role into his grave. I have caught wind of some of his feelings from the VP who is more traditionally minded. However the board gets voted on the first of next year and I already know that I am one of the obstacles he is trying to get replaced.

If so, then they can be unseated with a vote of no confidence. If not, then the powers that be, are without reigns, and imho, that's very dangerous, to say the least.

Unfortunately no such thing exists in our bylaws. The only way someone can be removed is by voting them off the board.

A lot of things for you to consider, outside of ranks and belts and this and that. That is why I approached my post here in the manner of which I did.

Your, imho, Shinshii's legacy is in your hands NOW and FOREVER!! How do you and the rest of the board feel about that, and are you all ready to uphold and support and defend his legacy, no matter what??

Change is inevitable!! But the validity of what your Shinshii had assembled is entrusted in you and your board, and all of the eyes of your Student Body are upon you all to do what is right for ALL CONCERNED and not just those on the board.

Agreed. This is the only reason I remain as a board member. Personally I would rather just train and teach and leave the political gobbly goop to others. If I felt that his legacy was not under attack I would have stepped completely down when the 1st and 2nd in-line came back and just concerned myself with my own betterment and the betterment of my students.

Who's stronger?? You and your board, or the beast of politics?? Forgive me if I've come across strong, as it's never my intent, and I only want to offer some advice to you because I've a great deal of experience in the comings and goings of a MA governing body. I've been where you're at, and I've seen the walls coming down all around us, and I've heard the cries of the Student Body in the midst of insurmountable turmoil.

Politics can't be avoided, however, they can be minimized once everyone are on the same page of your Shinshii. Without him, and all that he's done, none of you would be where you are within your governing body, and more importantly, within the style that he's taught each and everyone of you!! His tradition is all of yours' tradition!!

You all, imho, just as I've/we've done to our Soke and Dai-Soke, owe him your most sincerest gratitude. Remember him, and you all be just fine!!

Agreed. I appreciate the advice and your comments on the matter. Sounds like you have a ton of knowledge and have played this childish political game longer than I, so I will look into the books you recommended but I doubt it will do much good as it does not sound like we are set up like you. In fact it sounds like the way we are set up is childlike compared to your organization. These things were not established because no one thought they needed to be.

It's exhausting to even think about. I do however appreciate your insights. Maybe I can gain something from this and put some tools into my pouch that I can use to stop some of this nonsense. I guess time will tell.

[MatsuShinshii]

I'm not good at cutting and pasting multiple quotes, so bear with me...

I agree with your views on junior black belts. No matter how hard I try to accept it and how good the arguments are for having them, I just can't justify it. Being a grade 5-8 science teacher, I have several students who are junior black belts in a few different arts. This sums up my feelings about it best - for every test, I play a review game the day before. Students get answers correct, they advance in belt rank. I follow Seido's white-blue-yellow-green-brown-black order, then award dan ranks. It's a great game and my students love it. When a student gets to their black belt question, I tend to make it difficult. I often get "he's already a real black belt!" To which I struggle not to say "he's 10, there's no way he's a real black belt." I can't help it, it's just how I feel.

That ties in to my other thoughts on your dilemma...

Black belt should be a sacred thing, in a way. Yes, it's just a belt, but it's so much more too. There needs to be integrity in setting the standards, testing, and awarding dan ranks. Shortening the time it takes to achieve it by cutting back the curriculum hurts the integrity of it. If someone meets the standards set by your Shinshii in less time than the norm, then so be it. But if they don't meet those standards, then go back and train some more. I'm not the firmest believer in minimum time in grade, but at the same time there's no substitute for experience.

Watering down the curriculum by lowering the standards for shodan in an effort to "modernize" really hurts the organization's integrity. Black belts are the model of the school. Lowering those standards to "modernize" is putting the rank up for sale. No other way to put it. It's not being earned the way your Shinshii intended it to be earned. Better yet, it's not being earned they way your Shinshii demanded it to be earned. He had the dan candidate's teacher sit in on the test, and for very good reason. The teacher was held accountable for the student's performance, good, bad, and everything in between. What would he say to lowering the standards in order to modernize? I'm sure he wouldn't even hear the person finish the sentence.

Just my opinions. I'm a 40 year old old-school guy.

You certainly stated my thoughts better than I could. This is exactly how I feel even though it is not a popular point of view now days.

Black belt should be a sacred thing, in a way.

I could not say it any better.

When I was coming up we looked at BB's as if they were the best of the best and the baddest around. We knew that if they wore that grade they were not someone you wanted to mess with. We also knew what they went through to earn that rank and we were both excited and terrified to get to the point that Shinshii would tell us we were ready to test. It was a respected grade. I feel like now days the respect for the grade has diminished to such an extent that even instructors say "it's just another grade" as if it were just above Hachikyu (white belt).

It means much more than the piece of cloth around your waist. It is a symbol and as such should be held to a higher standard and stand apart from the Mudansha ranks IMHO.

And I agree that our Shodan do represent us and who are what the outside world judge us by. Why then would anyone want to lessen the requirements? Who wants to be represented by the mediocre? I want to be represented by the best. After all what better symbol is their for a potential student to join you, than when they see what they could become?

[MatsuShinshii]

So how does the 18, 115 ib female fair against the 32 year old 255 pounder?

I could have seen this one coming... but your not going to like my answer.

I also do not see gender as an obstacle. We all have deficiencies, strengths and weaknesses. The key is to teach your students how to maximize their strengths and to use their weaknesses to their benefit.

It kills me that Karateka would ever question how someone could overcome a stronger or larger person. Is this not what we teach our students? Is this not what we find within the Kata/Bunkai. We are taught every day how to overcome larger opponents. We are taught how to capitalize on our opponents weaknesses. So yes she would fair just fine.

Is ego a weakness? It is when you go into a fight thinking you have already won because you underestimate your opponent.

I can take a larger man down just as fast as a smaller one. I see no difference. The body can be damaged if you understand it's weaknesses. A large man is the same as a small man. You obviously approach each situation differently and assess them according to their strengths and weaknesses but lets face it, if you strike me in the throat do I not gasp for air?

To answer your question she would fair about the same as a 18 yr old 115 lb male. The strategy would differ, their approach would differ, their strengths and weaknesses differ but when they square off they will do as they have been trained to do and they will through their own way hold their own.

I have seen mountainous men be taken down by the smallest of men. The worst I have ever been beaten was by a guy that weighed a 100 lbs soaken wet. It did not matter that I was trained or out weighed him by more than a 100 lbs.

I have also witnessed women take down larger males by utilizing their strengths and their training. Why train if it doesn't matter if you actually meet someone that out weighs, is stronger, is scarier than you?

Women can be just as dangerous as men if trained properly. It's also a matter of mentality. How willing are you to be maimed? If a woman hurts you enough and you start to realize that you may be permanently injured do you quit? It's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog.

Oh and let me clarify. I do not give a pass or take it easy on someone just because they are a girl. They train the same and test the same as the men. Gender does not give you a pass out on the street so there is no pass in the Dojo.

Again, some might think me to old school but it is what it is. This is how I have been brought up in the arts and this is how I bring my students up in the arts.

And yes before someone else asks, there are those students that do not share my mentality and do not stay with me. But again that's just the way it is. I am not there to baby sit. I am here to teach and to pass on the art that I love to worthy students.

I do not have favorites and all students are treated as equal and as such are trained and tested the exact same no matter age, gender, size, weight, or any other difference. I do not see differences, I see students. And as such I take their training seriously and expect them to as well.

Lets face it we are not training to patty cake with a mugger, rapist, or murderer. We train so that if (God forbid) we meet that person that looks to do us harm, we can defend ourselves and walk away so that we can continue to live our lives. That's as simple as it is.

Having said this I do not put the thought in my students mind that their is someone or some type of person that they can not beat. To me this is self defeating and guarantees them to loose if placed in this situation. Why then would I say that a 18 yr old 115 lb girl could not hold her own and/or do damage sufficient to walk away from an altercation with a larger man?

I wouldn't because I believe if trained correctly anyone can stand up to anyone.

I know it's coming so I'll further clarify... No I am not saying that everyone of my students can whip anyone in the world. I realize that others may be further in their journey and have more skill and knowledge. I get that a Shodan may not be able to beat a Sandan or a girl may not be able to ward off a trained professional MMA fighter. I am not invincible nor would I claim to be. I am old and can't do some of the things I could do as a younger man but I can say I can hold my own against larger, stronger, and younger men because I do it on a weekly basis. You don't have to be the badest you only have to know how to end the fight if you need to.