Rank Structure

[Wastelander]

At my old dojo, seniority was determined by time-in-grade. If TIG was the same, then it was determined by total time training in the martial arts. If that was the same, then it went by age.

My current dojo doesn't bother with such things.

[DWx]

Depends a lot on style and individual school.

Generally we start with time in grade with the person who's been at that grade the longest considered senior. If that's they same, we go by total time training. If that also happens to be the same, then the oldest person is assumed to be senior.

I do know some schools however who just take the eldest student and treat them as senior.

[bushido_man96]

If there is ever a question or issue that arises, I'll just let the other person have the spot in line. After all, I'm there to train.

[KC1996]

My own understanding is very much like others....time at grade represents seniority.

There was a recent case where a couple of students were confused about the rank structure in a club. Lets call them ‘Student A’ and ‘Student B’. Student A tested and received his nidan ahead of Student B, but had not been training as long as Student B. Student B had taken many years off from training for various reasons, but had come back to the dojo when his life was not as busy. Student B tested a year later for his nidan and failed the test. When Student B took his test the second time he passed. Student B now felt he is the more senior student than Student A because he started training earlier, which is where the disagreement came in. I don't think Student A really cared a whole lot, but Student B felt more strongly about it.

I’m not sure what the final verdict of the disagreement ended up being, but I think Student B was out of line claiming seniority. They may have started sooner, but did not train regularly, tested a year after Student A for the same rank, and even then failed the test and had to try again. Claiming seniority at that point I thought was pretty arrogant….but that’s just my opinion. I’m no longer training with that group.

[ninjanurse]

I am in the camp that believes seniority should be based on time-in-grade, then portfolio (years/arts studied), then age. Emotion should not be involved...if it is then they missed the lesson.

[The Pred]

So how does this work for lets say judo tournaments where you have a bunch of 6-8 wearing the kohaku obi. That must be a pain to determine who lines up where. Same belt so how does you know which is a 6,7,8. Anyhow, same rank realy doesn't matter, I would say who ever gets in line first.

[sensei8]

So how does this work for lets say judo tournaments where you have a bunch of 6-8 wearing the kohaku obi. That must be a pain to determine who lines up where. Same belt so how does you know which is a 6,7,8. Anyhow, same rank realy doesn't matter, I would say who ever gets in line first.

Whomever is wearing a Kohaku Obi, trust me, their ranks are known within that governing body!

Take the SKKA, for example. Every single Rokudan and up are in attendance at our annual Testing Cycle without any exceptions. Within the SKKA, we're all very well known by the SKKA's student body, in that, we know where to line up and where to not line up, albeit, the student body knows that about us as well. In short, there's never any surprises and/or confusions!!

Whenever I wear mine, and if there are others that are approved to wear such, it's known by all that I'm the top dog on and off the floor. And depending on what the event is, who lines up to my left varies. Sometimes Shogo title holders line up per their Shogo level, and then by Dan ranks, so on and so forth.

A visitor to our Hombu might not know or understand or care about things like this, and for those who've an interest in it, still might not know one way or another. Even those who are well versed in the practice, still might not know either as to that particular protocol and the like.

[The Pred]

So how does this work for lets say judo tournaments where you have a bunch of 6-8 wearing the kohaku obi. That must be a pain to determine who lines up where. Same belt so how does you know which is a 6,7,8. Anyhow, same rank realy doesn't matter, I would say who ever gets in line first.

Whomever is wearing a Kohaku Obi, trust me, their ranks are known within that governing body!

Take the SKKA, for example. Every single Rokudan and up are in attendance at our annual Testing Cycle without any exceptions. Within the SKKA, we're all very well known by the SKKA's student body, in that, we know where to line up and where to not line up, albeit, the student body knows that about us as well. In short, there's never any surprises and/or confusions!!

Whenever I wear mine, and if there are others that are approved to wear such, it's known by all that I'm the top dog on and off the floor. And depending on what the event is, who lines up to my left varies. Sometimes Shogo title holders line up per their Shogo level, and then by Dan ranks, so on and so forth.

A visitor to our Hombu might not know or understand or care about things like this, and for those who've an interest in it, still might not know one way or another. Even those who are well versed in the practice, still might not know either as to that particular protocol and the like.

Solid, hope the rebuilding of your organization is going well.

[sensei8]

So how does this work for lets say judo tournaments where you have a bunch of 6-8 wearing the kohaku obi. That must be a pain to determine who lines up where. Same belt so how does you know which is a 6,7,8. Anyhow, same rank realy doesn't matter, I would say who ever gets in line first.

Whomever is wearing a Kohaku Obi, trust me, their ranks are known within that governing body!

Take the SKKA, for example. Every single Rokudan and up are in attendance at our annual Testing Cycle without any exceptions. Within the SKKA, we're all very well known by the SKKA's student body, in that, we know where to line up and where to not line up, albeit, the student body knows that about us as well. In short, there's never any surprises and/or confusions!!

Whenever I wear mine, and if there are others that are approved to wear such, it's known by all that I'm the top dog on and off the floor. And depending on what the event is, who lines up to my left varies. Sometimes Shogo title holders line up per their Shogo level, and then by Dan ranks, so on and so forth.

A visitor to our Hombu might not know or understand or care about things like this, and for those who've an interest in it, still might not know one way or another. Even those who are well versed in the practice, still might not know either as to that particular protocol and the like.

Solid, hope the rebuilding of your organization is going well.

The rebuild is going just fine; thanks for asking, The Pred.

[Nidan Melbourne]

My own understanding is very much like others....time at grade represents seniority.

There was a recent case where a couple of students were confused about the rank structure in a club. Lets call them ‘Student A’ and ‘Student B’. Student A tested and received his nidan ahead of Student B, but had not been training as long as Student B. Student B had taken many years off from training for various reasons, but had come back to the dojo when his life was not as busy. Student B tested a year later for his nidan and failed the test. When Student B took his test the second time he passed. Student B now felt he is the more senior student than Student A because he started training earlier, which is where the disagreement came in. I don't think Student A really cared a whole lot, but Student B felt more strongly about it.

I’m not sure what the final verdict of the disagreement ended up being, but I think Student B was out of line claiming seniority. They may have started sooner, but did not train regularly, tested a year after Student A for the same rank, and even then failed the test and had to try again. Claiming seniority at that point I thought was pretty arrogant….but that’s just my opinion. I’m no longer training with that group.

Solid Post KC1996. In my opinion Student "B" was indeed out of line as they hadn't spent more time in grade as Student "A". IMHO if we all lined up by who has trained the longest then there would be a mishmash of colour grades everywhere.

At my dojo there is are only 2 other people (other than my sensei) who have trained longer than I have. One is a Nidan and a few months younger than I am, but he earnt his Nidan before I did so no qualms there.

The other however is a Shodan-Ho and is many years my senior (in Age and in Training); he commenced training prior to my sensei getting his Black Belt when they were both part of the IGK (Tino Ceberano's Organisation; Goju-Kai Lineage). If we went with whoever has trained longer, he would stand in front of me and the person I mentioned above.

But at the end of the day this as I feel like would disrespect those of Higher Grade if someone ranked lower stood in front of them.

When you're a Kyu grade i understand that there may be some petty squabbles of who stands where, often we just tell them to alternate if they can't sort it out. However Dan Grades tend to be in each grade of a fair amount of time, so petty squabbles like this don't exist.

When I train; there are normally 2 or 3 other Nidan's in Line and we all line up according to who got it first and then who is older. Simple as that