Demonstrating knockout techniques on students

[Alan Armstrong]

Seems to bother me and perhaps you also, when teachers knockout their students in demonstrations.

These instructors emphasizes how dangerous these knockouts are and do them without considering the dangerous consequences or potencial of causing long term injuries to students.

There is sufficient film or video footage that confirms these knockout techniques work very well, without the added need for more demonstrations.

Personally I have been knocked out cold. Also had head traumas due to accidents. Literally seen stars going around my head, just like in the cartoons depict them to be.

Nothing gained from being knocked out only aggravating potential future brain damage.

These teachers that knock students out should not be allowed to do so. I put this type of practice on the same level as testing products on animals.

[bushido_man96]

I wouldn't think a teacher would think it smart to knock out students, but some folks probably get fooled into thinking its some kind of "old school" training or some such thing.

I'd not be willing to assume the liability when knocking out a student for a demonstration. Too much could go wrong.

[ashworth]

Like what has already been said, too much could go wrong, its really not worth it, the only type of instructors that I could imagine doing this, are instructors that are full of themselves, power hungry and feel like they have something to prove.

I couldn't imagine doing it, I would feel so bad!

[mazzybear]

I think questions have to be asked of the students too, I mean, who in their right mind would volunteer to be knocked out? Certainly not me! I trust my instructor implicitly but, if he asked me to demonstrate a knockout with him, then, my answer would be a firm NO!

Mo.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The martial arts, at least if seriously practised, are not nor should ever be some sort of sideshow. A knockout, by its very nature is very dangerous and there is always the risk of serious injury. It is not something to be taken lightly or played with.

Only the most experienced and controlled instructors should ever attempt to demonstrate these types of techniques. Even so, it is very inadvisble to do on a regular basis because of possible cumulative damage. Without intimate knowledge of the student's health and physical conditions and an instructor who has complete master of technique to be able to control it throughout, it is a very stupid thing to do.

[Alan Armstrong]

It is great to see that others find this knockout demonstrations practice not to be agreeable also.

Sometimes it is not considered a knockout (by demonstrators) but called instead a slight 'buzz'

My personal concussion gave me dizzy spells for more than 6 months after the fact. Not so much from the crack to my head but from the twist of my neck close to the base of my skull.

I was knocked out from the quick twist of my neck, the punch did hit the knockout button on my jaw but I believe it was in combination with my neck being significantly hyper twisted past it's intended range of movement. Also my brain hitting the inside of my skull as I hit ground with my head.

For me a four factors knockout: 1. chin, 2. vertebrae twist in upper most part of the neck, 3. brain hitting inside of skull and 4. outside of skull hitting the ground.

The demonstration knockouts differ in that they catch the person before he hits his head on the floor. Also these knockout demos don't twist necks. They do however use blows to the skull, chin, neck and arm.

[sensei8]

My most simplest answer to the OP is a firm NO...I'd never knock out a student or layperson to demonstrate the effectiveness of any MA technique!! If an instructor of the MA does this with anyone, that instructor isn't an instructor, but an individual who's assaulted someone intentionally, and that instructor should go to jail!!

Medical implications are far to wide to attempt such a dangerous and intentional act. Why do it? To show that the technique(s) work, aka, effective!? So, to show that a groin kick is effective, I'm suppose to kick someone in their groin? No, everyone already knows what can happen if someone's kicked in the groin; after all, it don't take much force to affect that area.

That's the problem with the MA of today...have to prove something somewhere to someone. If not, then that technique(s) isn't effective. The other problem with the MA of today is that many MAist don't want to take the responsibility of research in any of the techniques within the MA that they're learning.

Take the instructors word when told that 'it' works...NO!! Research each and everything in the style of the MA that you're learning, but do it responsibly and safely without hurting one single person. There's no excuse for being irresponsible for the sake of any technique because those that are used in such a manner are the victims for the sake of THAT INSTRUCTOR and no one else!!

An instructor can demonstrate every technique within their MA without knocking out or injuring a student. How? RESEARCH MEDICAL IMPLICATIONS!! A doctor can tell you what the medical implications are if I, for example, twist someones head and neck violently without actually applying it. Prove is in the pudding doesn't mean to actually follow through...RESEARCH and be RESPONSIBLE to any and all students and laypersons.

How do we know what will happen if someone's struck in their solar plexus? By actually striking it? NO!! Research the medical implications!! How do I know what will happen if someone's struck in their throat? By actually striking it? NO!! Research the medical implications.

Research shows us!! Research proves it!! Without actually applying and injuring someone at full force; just short of target!! Control without reservation and ambiguity is vital, and that control still allows a student to learn without being injured, or worse.

Imho!!

[gunner]

I've never seen an instructor knock-out or buzz a student. That's like others have said - an instructor on an ego trip that needs to find another occupation.

[hammer]

Agree that knockouts (or any real physical harm) during demos are definitely a no-no, but what about full contact kumite in class? Have seen a few instances during testing where the smelling salts were needed (fortunately not on me)...but I guess I just see that as part of learning a full contact style...

[JR 137]

Agree that knockouts (or any real physical harm) during demos are definitely a no-no, but what about full contact kumite in class? Have seen a few instances during testing where the smelling salts were needed (fortunately not on me)...but I guess I just see that as part of learning a full contact style...

Do not ever use smelling salts to wake up an unconscious person! Why not? When someone is woken up this way, their head moves very sharply when they come to. The medical field learned the hard way that unconscious people with a broken neck were significantly worsening their condition being woken up this way. When someone is unconscious due to trauma, you have to assume their neck is broken until it's ruled out by X-Ray or the like. When someone is KO'ed, they often hit their head on the ground too. This can and does cause neck fractures.

While I'm on a roll, never remove a helmet, head gear, etc. from an unconscious person either. You can and will move their neck while taking it off. Only remove it if you have to perform mouth to mouth and there's absolutely no other way, as in they have some sort of face shield that can't be cut off and they're not breathing.

Sorry for the lecture; it's the former sports medicine guy in me.