How important is time in rank?

[Luther unleashed]

To an instructor I'm curious what your thoughts are. I grew up with testings being a topical 3 to 4 months apart from each other, and if you were there working hard you could test. There was no specific time on rank required most of the time. I say most of the time as I trained different places, martial arts etc. I tell students there is no time limit and they will move as fast or slow as they show me they are deserving of. In the end I'm sort of not being honest because if there is no time limit then a black belt could be achieved in 6 months to a hard working student. That just couldn't happen, so I suppose when I say it what I mean is I'm not going to make you wait a certain time to test out of each rank BUT I'm not going to skip belts and hold extra testings because you are getting it down either. If a student trains consistently under me, and is getting things with ease on average they should test in about 2 years for black belt. To me black belt is a mastery of the basics and 4 to 5 years is just not necessary for this. It is said Chuck Norris earned his 1st Dan in Tang Soo Do in 1 year. I'm certain it was a very dedicated year.

I recently checked in (being nosy) on an old place I used to train at. One of the students who made black belt in april of 2014, is now at 3rd Dan as of July 2016. I am not hating on him, and to each their own, but as I trained along side this gentleman I can say his technique needed more time to blossom. There is a point when you can see that the technique needs more of something and most often more time training that techniqu can make the difference. Some schools are content with you knowing the required techniques, I was told by my instructor "it's not always about how many techniques you know, but how well you know them". This is about quality over quantity plain and simple. My students do many many basic kicks and I sometimes have to wonder just what they think but my goal is to make them real good at a front snap kick and a roundhouse before I care too much about advanced kicking.

Do you require a set time in rank? What is the importance of time in rank to you?

[Nidan Melbourne]

Each of our Kyu Grades has a set minimum of 30 Lessons and having passed 5 in-class tests (spaced 6 Lessons apart). Those tests where you've passed is denoted by a Black 'Tag' on the students belt.

More often than not they will normally have 40-45 lessons prior to grading, as we don't normally operate gradings for less than 10 people. If we did then we would be operating Gradings on a Fortnightly Basis. As such our gradings are held normally every 3-4 months which most students will be able to grade.

Our Yudansha is time in grade based, as such you cannot grade until you have trained consistently for that time frame. Our Shodan-Ho students must train consistently for 18 Months (1 year + 6 Months), Shodan Students train consistently for 30 Months (2 1/2 Years) so on and so forth.

At the Moment I have only seen 1 Student reach black belt in just over 3 years and that was him training 4 Days per week consistently throughout that period.

Personally I prefer and insist on having students spending plenty of time in grade to ensure that they can improve technique in grade. As this will ensure that students can solidify knowledge and technique prior to being promoted; as such they won't create poor behaviors later on in their training

[Spartacus Maximus]

Larger dojo often have specific time in grade as requirements. In most cases it is more of a guideline than a rule. A student will not automatically advance to the next level when the time in grade has been reached. It just means that the time is the minimum.

Progress is unique to each person and some people might not be up to a level's standard after the minimum time. There are many more variables as well as evaluation from the instructor.

[The Pred]

To an instructor I'm curious what your thoughts are. I grew up with testings being a topical 3 to 4 months apart from each other, and if you were there working hard you could test. There was no specific time on rank required most of the time. I say most of the time as I trained different places, martial arts etc. I tell students there is no time limit and they will move as fast or slow as they show me they are deserving of. In the end I'm sort of not being honest because if there is no time limit then a black belt could be achieved in 6 months to a hard working student. That just couldn't happen, so I suppose when I say it what I mean is I'm not going to make you wait a certain time to test out of each rank BUT I'm not going to skip belts and hold extra testings because you are getting it down either. If a student trains consistently under me, and is getting things with ease on average they should test in about 2 years for black belt. To me black belt is a mastery of the basics and 4 to 5 years is just not necessary for this. It is said Chuck Norris earned his 1st Dan in Tang Soo Do in 1 year. I'm certain it was a very dedicated year.

I recently checked in (being nosy) on an old place I used to train at. One of the students who made black belt in april of 2014, is now at 3rd Dan as of July 2016. I am not hating on him, and to each their own, but as I trained along side this gentleman I can say his technique needed more time to blossom. There is a point when you can see that the technique needs more of something and most often more time training that techniqu can make the difference. Some schools are content with you knowing the required techniques, I was told by my instructor "it's not always about how many techniques you know, but how well you know them". This is about quality over quantity plain and simple. My students do many many basic kicks and I sometimes have to wonder just what they think but my goal is to make them real good at a front snap kick and a roundhouse before I care too much about advanced kicking.

Do you require a set time in rank? What is the importance of time in rank to you?

I think time in rank is important, but at the same time don't.

According to the Judo info site Mifune, Kyuzo (b1883-d1965)

He began Judo at age 13 and joined the Kodokan in 1903. By 1912, he was already a Rokudan (6th Degree black belt) and a Kodokan instructor. He was unbelievably energetic and eventually stood at the head of the Kodokan's instructors. The speed with which he mastered the techniques of Judo can only be matched by the rapidity of his promotion. He received the grade of 10th dan on May 25, 1945, was the second youngest man to be promoted to 10th Dan, and he held his rank nearly 20 years, the longest of any 10th Dan. He was a permanent member of the Kodokan Dojo Consultative Group. He is the author of the Canon of Judo. In 1964 the Japanese Government awarded him the honor of the Order of the Rising Sun. He was the first person ever to be honored this way during his lifetime. Before his death on January 27, 1965 he was the only tenth dan alive in the world.

If you're really good the cream will rise to the top.

[sensei8]

Time in rank is as important as it is to said governing body. Outside of that governing body, it might not have much value, if any. The governing body usually has the right to amend anything relating to rank without notice. Sure, there are written expectations per rank, and per title, and per teaching license, however, that reserved right of the governing body is preserved.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Larger dojo often have specific time in grade as requirements. In most cases it is more of a guideline than a rule. A student will not automatically advance to the next level when the time in grade has been reached. It just means that the time is the minimum.

Progress is unique to each person and some people might not be up to a level's standard after the minimum time. There are many more variables as well as evaluation from the instructor.

Smaller, Independent Clubs more often than not do that. But obviously there are some that don't both with the Time in Grade

[Spartacus Maximus]

The more numerous students are the more challenging it can be for an instructor to keep track of each individual's progress. Set standards for minimum time in grade are a valuable teaching strategy.

[Luther unleashed]

The more numerous students are the more challenging it can be for an instructor to keep track of each individual's progress. Set standards for minimum time in grade are a valuable teaching strategy.

This statement is so true. I can see this point as a very valid one. I forwarding day organising and keeping track very hard at times, depending on student could take as you said.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Whenever specific time-in-grade for a rank is mentioned, it is usually meant as a benchmark. As progresss is different for everyone, time in rank is not a relevant concept outside of the context of teaching and evaluating students.

What ought to be considered instead by both instructor and student is the quality of the skills gained and the level of improvement of each individual since the last time these were evaluated. A good instructor will judge a student by that student's improvements, not by those of others.

[sensei8]

If any CI is under the guidance of their governing body, and most are, any and all determinations as to time in rank and the like are decided by the governing body only. A CI can inquire as to any parameters surrounding time in rank, but the ultimate decision is not for the CI to interpret, but to conclude and accept that the governing body is the final word.