Be honest, do you look down upon it?

[Luther unleashed]

So you are with a federation/association, I think most martial artist and especially schools are. Do you look down at those who are not? Do you have less respect for those who are not? I am connected to a federation but it's a very open minded federation pertaining to styles and most federations seek to isolate a style and preserve it in my experience. Style wise, do you question something less, such as a technique, because the guy belongs to blah blah, rather then not belonging to any? Be honest!

[Lupin1]

We don't belong to a federation and my instructor actually makes negative comments about people who do. He thinks federations cause martial arts to be watered down for political reasons. Too much politics crowd out the authenticity. He believes the martial arts are naturally fluid and each group is meant to do things differently and develop their own quirks and uniqueness and that trying to take that away takes away part of the martial arts.

I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both joining a federation and remaining independent, but I thought I'd post an opinion from the other side of the fence.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I think it depends on your federation, as there are many that are good and some are bad. It does depend on what they offer and what influence they have over individual clubs

I have heard of some federations that are close minded about others and non-federation clubs.

[Luther unleashed]

So, as an instructor I would agree with both of you. I also can see the benefits and there are somethings that could be bad. For one federations cost. They usually take some cash for testings, membership, and more. The one thing I do not have as my school itself isn't currently backed by a federation is that typically there are tournaments that a federation has and they come in numbers. Now, my wife has taken part in tournaments, I have even taken many pictures and supported her, but I never have. Self defense has always been the draw to me and never that aspect, but as a teacher I would, at times, love to offer this to my students at some point. It's been difficult for me to find a school on the same page as me, so I can see som benefit there.

Ultimately I think the draw is authenticity. Being backed by a federation means there is some credit to what you teach, now that also govern to some extent, what you teach but this can be good and bad depending on how you view it.

When I taught for my last school, there was an instructor who often taught technique wrong. Be taught it from technique that was from his previous system. It was complicated because a student would say "Mr so and so said do it like this" and I would say when your with him do it like that, but when with me do it like this. I did FYI address it with the chief instructor but he never seemed to fix it. In a federation propped technique is very fluid and stressed. In this way I see a benefit again, but ultimately I chose not to be a part of one as I like to teach integrated martial arts. I want to learn a great technique and not have to answer to another person weather I can teach it in my program. Also, as I grow do does my program. If I see the need for change I simply change it, I don't ask somebody if I can Change it.

As stated above some benefits and some disadvantages I think. Often times in put down for not being in one. Recently a guy called and laughed when I said I wasn't a part of a federation alarm he asked me. He literally laughed at me, I felt like telling him some things for his lack of respect, but I told him to have a good day. True story, sometimes people want that "team" feeling and feel it makes the material taught authentic, I could go on and on.

[tallgeese]

Not really.

I came out of trad art gym that was only affiliated with a small federation. Certainly nothing nationally recognized. So I kind of grew up that way. I've since gotten to go to lots of places and train with lots of people and I've never been anywhere I felt like i was out of depth. It's just, as always, about the quality of training.

I'm slightly more snobbish, if we're being honest, about jiujitsu. I have a strong suspicion about "freestyle" clubs with no lineage. That said, if someone can show me BJJ lineage I'm open.

[LLLEARNER]

Maybe I am too independent minded, maybe because I grew up in an independent Baptist church. Maybe both. I am less interested in federations than the school and sensei. Maybe I am too new and inexperienced to fully appreciate the value of being in a federation.

[gunner]

I been a student at a school that belonged to a federation and one that is not. As a student, I really can't tell the difference. I think the instructor makes all the difference.

[JR 137]

My first school was part of an organization for a good portion of my time there. He left and became independent during my last 2 years. The organization was local, but it was pretty big, having about 10 independently owned dojos with a total of around 1,000 students.

I liked it for several reasons. We could train at the different dojos, getting different perspectives from the teachers and sparring with different people. We weren't allowed to consistently train at a different dojo, but it was strongly encouraged to occasionally go to another one for a class. There were some good teachers and students at the various dojos. I'd go to a different one every 2-3 months or so. We'd typically call ahead and ask if we could come by.

My teacher left for various reasons. The ones I know of are justified. He was always shot down when he made suggestions. They weren't radical changes by any means; they were actually suggestions to go back to the way things were IMO. The straw that broke the camel's back for my teacher was when the head of the organization stopped testing kyu ranks but still demanded the testing fees. My Sensei claimed he didn't make any money on testing - the head guy would come to the dojo and test us. He was completely fine with that arrangement. But if my Sensei is running the test by himself and doing all the legwork, the only thing the honbu is doing is stamping certificates. Why should he pay $50 a head for that?

I really liked the changes to the curriculum my Sensei made after he left. The best change was he got involved with Nishiuchi's Okinawan weapons program and incorporated that into his curriculum. The weapons stuff we were doing previously wasn't very good in hindsight. He undid changes that the organization made over the years to some kata. He completely got away from tournament stuff and strongly deemphasized promoting in rank.

We all however missed getting together with the different dojos for events. There were events at the old honbu, massive outdoor workouts, and stuff like that that we looked forward to. They weren't too often, but they were often enough to make it worthwhile.

My Sensei was one of the first to leave. The head guy and his second in line pretty drove everyone away with their MA and financial policies over the ensuing years. 18 years later, the only two dojos left in that organization are the honbu and his right hand man's dojo.

I'm currently in Seido Juku. I really like the organization. It has a strong family atmosphere to it. There's a lot of karate events they do. I wish there were more relatively local dojos; the closest one is 2.5 hours away in NYC. We have people from various dojos come to us to take class due to where we are and my teacher. A few other CIs from the region were preparing to promote a few months ago, so they were coming to our dojo on Saturdays to polish up and train with our teacher and second in line.

I don't look down on a teacher for not being in an organization and more than I look up to one for being in one. It's all about the teacher. Being in an organization does give more initial credibility though. If they're affiliated, you know someone else has approved them so to speak. You know they're answering to someone. You know they're not making it up as they go. But all of that is only as good as the organization itself. There are some great organizations, and some that I have zero respect for.

At the end of the day, the organization isn't teaching me, the teacher is. If he/she is doing things the right way (or what I think is the right way), I'll become their student. On the flip side, there's a few dojos in my current organization that I wouldn't join. Not because they're bad teachers, but because what they emphasize.

Then you get the head of the organization. My previous organization's head guy wasn't someone I cared for. He was an excellent MAist and by all accounts a good person. He wasn't very approachable and his sarcasm wasn't my cup of tea (I'm a sarcastic guy too, but his was a different brand of it). The head of Seido (Tadashi Nakamura) is completely different. He's very personable and approachable. He makes it a point to know everyone's name or at least remember who they are and where they train, and the organization is HUGE. I briefly met and spoke with him last summer at an outdoor workout. He remembered me when I saw him this summer at our tournament. It was like talking to a normal person vs some guy who's on a high horse. Hard to describe, I guess.

[Nidan Melbourne]

My first school was part of an organization for a good portion of my time there. He left and became independent during my last 2 years. The organization was local, but it was pretty big, having about 10 independently owned dojos with a total of around 1,000 students.

I liked it for several reasons. We could train at the different dojos, getting different perspectives from the teachers and sparring with different people. We weren't allowed to consistently train at a different dojo, but it was strongly encouraged to occasionally go to another one for a class. There were some good teachers and students at the various dojos. I'd go to a different one every 2-3 months or so. We'd typically call ahead and ask if we could come by.

My teacher left for various reasons. The ones I know of are justified. He was always shot down when he made suggestions. They weren't radical changes by any means; they were actually suggestions to go back to the way things were IMO. The straw that broke the camel's back for my teacher was when the head of the organization stopped testing kyu ranks but still demanded the testing fees. My Sensei claimed he didn't make any money on testing - the head guy would come to the dojo and test us. He was completely fine with that arrangement. But if my Sensei is running the test by himself and doing all the legwork, the only thing the honbu is doing is stamping certificates. Why should he pay $50 a head for that?

I really liked the changes to the curriculum my Sensei made after he left. The best change was he got involved with Nishiuchi's Okinawan weapons program and incorporated that into his curriculum. The weapons stuff we were doing previously wasn't very good in hindsight. He undid changes that the organization made over the years to some kata. He completely got away from tournament stuff and strongly deemphasized promoting in rank.

We all however missed getting together with the different dojos for events. There were events at the old honbu, massive outdoor workouts, and stuff like that that we looked forward to. They weren't too often, but they were often enough to make it worthwhile.

My Sensei was one of the first to leave. The head guy and his second in line pretty drove everyone away with their MA and financial policies over the ensuing years. 18 years later, the only two dojos left in that organization are the honbu and his right hand man's dojo.

I'm currently in Seido Juku. I really like the organization. It has a strong family atmosphere to it. There's a lot of karate events they do. I wish there were more relatively local dojos; the closest one is 2.5 hours away in NYC. We have people from various dojos come to us to take class due to where we are and my teacher. A few other CIs from the region were preparing to promote a few months ago, so they were coming to our dojo on Saturdays to polish up and train with our teacher and second in line.

I don't look down on a teacher for not being in an organization and more than I look up to one for being in one. It's all about the teacher. Being in an organization does give more initial credibility though. If they're affiliated, you know someone else has approved them so to speak. You know they're answering to someone. You know they're not making it up as they go. But all of that is only as good as the organization itself. There are some great organizations, and some that I have zero respect for.

At the end of the day, the organization isn't teaching me, the teacher is. If he/she is doing things the right way (or what I think is the right way), I'll become their student. On the flip side, there's a few dojos in my current organization that I wouldn't join. Not because they're bad teachers, but because what they emphasize.

Then you get the head of the organization. My previous organization's head guy wasn't someone I cared for. He was an excellent MAist and by all accounts a good person. He wasn't very approachable and his sarcasm wasn't my cup of tea (I'm a sarcastic guy too, but his was a different brand of it). The head of Seido (Tadashi Nakamura) is completely different. He's very personable and approachable. He makes it a point to know everyone's name or at least remember who they are and where they train, and the organization is HUGE. I briefly met and spoke with him last summer at an outdoor workout. He remembered me when I saw him this summer at our tournament. It was like talking to a normal person vs some guy who's on a high horse. Hard to describe, I guess.

Solid Post JR137

My dojo (along with my old one) are affiliated with Karate Victoria (our state federation) and the Australian Karate Federation (Which is one of the Member Federations of the WKF).

For gradings we operate our own and in no way do we require to contact KV (Karate Victoria for short) or the AKF to bring instructors to sign off on students. Our Senior Black Belts (Currently we have 4 Nidan, 4 Shodan + many shodan-ho) have the opportunity to choose to grade through the AKF but is very expensive in comparison to ours (Gradings are a part of our memberships).

They don't force anything down our throats, yes we have to pay to be members BUT they do offer various things that make them worthwhile and we can communicate with other clubs to train or have friendly events.

[sensei8]

Be affiliated or not means very little to me because the governing body isn't the MAist!! What the MAist brings to the table is what I look for, and not who that person is affiliated with; I'm interested in the individual and not in any governing body.

Sure, I might say..."That's cool", as to the affiliation, but after that has been said, I look at, and only at the individual. Lineage...same thing..."That's cool", and all of this boils down, for me, to one thing...

Proof is on the floor!!