Not until 4th dan?

[Spartacus Maximus]

According to several accounts, a certain Okinawan sensei would not allow his students to practise jiyu kumite(free or spontaneous sparring) until 4th Dan, which is approximately between 8 to 10 years of daily training. Everything taught from the beginning until then was practised through training kata combined with partner drills and bunkai or isolating and perfecto ting techniques.

Although one can only speculate as to the reasoning for this might be, for what reasons might an instructor do this?

[MAfreak]

to keep paying naives and to ridicule karate while black belts don't know how to fight. missing facepalm-smilie here.

[sensei8]

This is appalling, to say the least!! This act negates the three K's completely, and this Okinawan Sensei should be ashamed and should close his dojo doors forever!!

IMHO!!

[Oshishinobu]

to me this almost sounds like a up hill both ways kinda story, but if true i would go with weird practice?

[JR 137]

On the surface it seems quite odd. Perhaps he covered the kumite aspect by doing unchoreographed step sparring (1 step, 2 step, etc.). Watch the documentary Tee: The Spirit of Okinawan Karate where the British guy who's training in Okinawa is going over his Uke (receiving skills) with partners and isn't coming along. While not exactly jiyu kumite (free sparring), it's highly effective training.

While what you're saying is highly suspect, the teacher had better by legendary in order for his no free sparring until yondan to work.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Sounds interesting, but I have heard of some instructors not allowing free sparring until 3rd Kyu. But that according to them is because they want their students to have mastered the basics and understand the bunkai for kata

Personally my dojo we allow Jiyu Kumite from 8th Kyu (Yellow Belt) as we only have one belt prior to this rank though: 9th Kyu (White Belt).

Our Partner Drills (Gyakusoku Kumite) are done seperately but not as 1-, 2- or 3- Step Sparring. Our Pre-Arranged Sparring has 7 different types.

Gyakusoku Kumite Ich has 3 Sections with on average 6 steps in each. This is the same for Gyakusoku Kumite Ni.

Gyakusoku Kumite San has 10 Steps

Yonhon Kumite = 4 Steps

Gohon = 5 Steps

Roppon Kumite = 6

Nanahon = 7

[Hawkmoon]

Sounds interesting, but I have heard of some instructors not allowing free sparring until 3rd Kyu. But that according to them is because they want their students to have mastered the basics and understand the bunkai for kata

Personally my dojo we allow Jiyu Kumite from 8th Kyu (Yellow Belt) as we only have one belt prior to this rank though: 9th Kyu (White Belt). ....

A solid base is, as most if not all of us is aware, extremely important, the profound comment "From a solid base builds ...etc etc!' is never more true than when you are starting out down the fighters/fighting road!

(I do Kyokushin, we fight, its what we do its what we are famous for, we fight from an early stage of our careers, if anything its a chore to get a kyokushin student to kihon or worse still ( ) kata!)

Regardless of the school/ryu/teacher of the combat system; Martial Art, Karate, warrior, fighter these are words used over the years to describe a student in the 'art of war'!

The traditionalist in can't get past the idea to hold a student back to such a late stage is...is counter intuitive you create a warrior with a solid base to build upon to fight, but with no experience normally assigned to someone of such rank...potential students would not consider you or your art....

...I cannot make mind up if there is a some thought process driving this as some kind of search for a certain sort or type of student!

[JohnASE]

I've heard of dojos that don't do any sparring, but to allow it only starting at 4th dan is uniquely odd. My first thought was that he only wanted students with adequate control to spar, but 4th dan crazy high!

[The Pred]

I've heard of dojos that don't do any sparring, but to allow it only starting at 4th dan is uniquely odd. My first thought was that he only wanted students with adequate control to spar, but 4th dan crazy high!

Yes, so let's say shodan isn't till 18.

So if they do it like this -Shodan-18

-Nidan-20

-Sandan-23

-Yondan-27

NOw this is just one example, dojo's can have any time. In grade they want. But if it's like I said is a long time to wait to sparr especially if they started as a kid.

[Kusotare]

By 4th dan my best sparing days were behind me!

K