Does lineage matter?

[DWx]

Just from observation it seems like some martial arts value this much more than others. But does it really matter what your lineage is? In my style people seem less concerned about who you trained with in the past and are more concerned about who you're training with now and what you're doing now.

So when does lineage matter? And to what extent does it matter?

[sensei8]

I don't know if lineage ever matters!!

In the beginning of my MA journey, lineage meant everything to me. In the middle of my MA journey, I started to question lineages overall value to me. Now that I've been on my MA journey for some time, lineage means very little, if nothing to me at all.

In short, whatever the value of lineage might be to whomever, it must be held in check in its context/content!! Otherwise, it's blown way up in order to match their inflated egos or the their lack of confidence about themselves.

Again, if lineage is kept within its proper context, it can help open doors that were once closed. However, lineage can cause the door to slam into ones face. Lineage is a sensitive and fragile thing to bear.

Then, there's this...I once explained my lineage some time ago, and I was meet with..."Telling me names that can be easily found on the internet, means nothing!" Curious thing I thought was, the Okinawa Masters that I spoke about are Masters to MANY Okinawa Karateka's world wide; fathers of many Okinawa MA.

If one can, and one should try, stand up on your own two feet, and make your own marks. Name dropping, imho, lessens ones validity in open and closed networks.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Lineage does matter but in the end, what is really important is not so much who one trained under but, what one has learned and how well. Lineage is valuable information to understand the origin of a system and its development.

It is also a way to remember one's instructor and the previous generations with the respect their efforts deserve and thanks for their dedication to sharing and teaching what they; in many cases spent a lifetime learning.

Of course all this only means something if the feelings and thoughts motivating them are true. Lineage is meaningless if it is reduced to nothing more than a reason to boast or exploit names for profit. Any fool can drop names or even make claims of being anyone's student. It is so incredibly easy.

A lineage is where one comes from, but it does not and must not determine what or whom one will become. That depends on the individual alone and the decisions and choices made. Being the pupil or the son of a great man does not automatically make one a great man.

[Oshishinobu]

Personally I see liniage as a "tracking number" we can see where the "style" as it were has been. I love to look back at Shorinryu and see the original versions of my kata if only to get ideas of possible applications. Through my styles linage as example I know my sensei trained with Yokota sensei to shodan and continued his training with Sensei Field who he feels is his snesei. In turn Sensei Field trained under Nakayama sensei who in turn trained under Funakoshi and so on. While in the grand scheme of things and when the rubber hits the road this information is meaningless it allows me to understand the progression of Shotokan that I have been given. I think people hold linage as some kind of badge saying "I trained with so and so so my karate is better than yours HAHAHA" (please insert Shaw brothers era voice track and music).

[Nidan Melbourne]

For me you to understand where you are now is to understand where you were and what came before you.

Let me elaborate for many of us you will have started training after the old 'masters' died. As such you would want to know where you came from in terms of your style but also want to shape it as much as possible. even the techniques and forms in every Martial Art you have to understand why you do it that particular way and others do it differently.

So if you don't look at your lineage then you are missing out of an important aspect of your training.

[JR 137]

I think it's important when discussing differences between splinter groups, so to speak. For instance if you have 2 Shotokan practitioners or Goju practitioners comparing and contrasting their ways, it's good to know where those stylistic potentially came from.

But that's pretty much it. Does my lineage of my teacher to Tadashi Nakamura to Mas Oyama make me any better than if it was my former Sensei to his teacher to Nakamura to Oyama, or me to Sensei X to Kanazawa to Funakoshi? It'll help understand/explain why I don't certain things, but it doesn't make me better or worse.

The most important part of my lineage is the person standing in front of the dojo while I'm in class that day.

[sensei8]

I think it's important when discussing differences between splinter groups, so to speak. For instance if you have 2 Shotokan practitioners or Goju practitioners comparing and contrasting their ways, it's good to know where those stylistic potentially came from.

But that's pretty much it. Does my lineage of my teacher to Tadashi Nakamura to Mas Oyama make me any better than if it was my former Sensei to his teacher to Nakamura to Oyama, or me to Sensei X to Kanazawa to Funakoshi? It'll help understand/explain why I don't certain things, but it doesn't make me better or worse.

The most important part of my lineage is the person standing in front of the dojo while I'm in class that day.

Solid post!!

While lineage might provide something positive, it's what the student does with that lineage that might make a difference. If my lineage came from Kanazawa Sensei, as an example, then that might mean something, but it's what I do within that lineage that makes the difference...either I can or I can't.

[JR 137]

I think it's important when discussing differences between splinter groups, so to speak. For instance if you have 2 Shotokan practitioners or Goju practitioners comparing and contrasting their ways, it's good to know where those stylistic potentially came from.

But that's pretty much it. Does my lineage of my teacher to Tadashi Nakamura to Mas Oyama make me any better than if it was my former Sensei to his teacher to Nakamura to Oyama, or me to Sensei X to Kanazawa to Funakoshi? It'll help understand/explain why I don't certain things, but it doesn't make me better or worse.

The most important part of my lineage is the person standing in front of the dojo while I'm in class that day.

Solid post!!

While lineage might provide something positive, it's what the student does with that lineage that might make a difference. If my lineage came from Kanazawa Sensei, as an example, then that might mean something, but it's what I do within that lineage that makes the difference...either I can or I can't.

My thoughts exactly. Lineage can give some credibility, such as if you're writing an article or a book, or as a speaker. People will most likely listen up and pay attention if you were some big shot's uchi deshi or the like. But once you're on the floor, as you say, the proof is on the floor. That lineage won't keep you from getting laughed off the floor if you're a paper tiger.

[Wado Heretic]

It comes down to why you are presenting your lineage; is it an attempt at inflated self-importance, an implication of your own quality as a martial artist because you trained under a respected individual, or to discuss historical context?

Historical context can provide insight into how to interpret what you are doing in the present; why did a teacher make changes to the Forms, or introduce certain practices? Has time made them redundant, or did the additions they made still hold water?

Lineage is important to the individual who wants to understand the "why" of what they are doing, and is invaluable in putting the "how" into context. However, beyond that I have seen no good reasons to present a lineage, except when a student makes an inquiry about it.

[Luther unleashed]

I come from a mixed background. I have mentioned a little of why in previous posts. For some time I was homeless in my early teens, I moved often when I lived with my parents ya as well. I never sought out a particular style, but looked for a certain something in a school. First encounter with martial arts was Bruce lee book "Tao of jeet kune do". And this started me on a path of wanting to seek knowledge and seek out what was effective for me and my life, I cared very little about style. Because of this I trained in different martial arts, and I also trained in some that were the same but were a different lineage however.

Now for me lineage is important to know, because not knowing where you come from is rough. I'm not a fan of feeling like you have to stick with a particular style or lineage of a system either, but for me at least I know where most of the things I practice came from. I find this important. I never knew my biological father, and I will always wonder what race, religion, and other things. I don't need to k ow and it won't effect me tremendously BUT it's an important thing.

Lineage is history, and an accurate history helps you know where you are going, because of where you have been (or in this case where the style has been)!