Who is the most influential martial artist of our era?

[JR 137]

No Frank Dux???????

(Just kidding!!)

I saw somewhere that someone was claiming Frank Dux was actually Frank Clark, who fought in the first World Open Karate Championship (aka the tournament in Fighting Black Kings/Strongest Karate). Talk about misguided clowns.

I love the Frank Dux stories. My favorite Dux claim has to be his 150 wins in a tournament (or something like that). Someone did the math and calculated that in a single elimination tournament, it would take about 1.5 million people entering it. Can't get enough of Frank Dux!

[tallgeese]

Rickson Gracie for sure. He put BJJ on the map in combative arenas and proved it over and over again in NHB matches.

[Bulltahr]

No Frank Dux???????

(Just kidding!!)

I saw somewhere that someone was claiming Frank Dux was actually Frank Clark, who fought in the first World Open Karate Championship (aka the tournament in Fighting Black Kings/Strongest Karate). Talk about misguided clowns.

I love the Frank Dux stories. My favorite Dux claim has to be his 150 wins in a tournament (or something like that). Someone did the math and calculated that in a single elimination tournament, it would take about 1.5 million people entering it. Can't get enough of Frank Dux!

He managed to fool Hollywood for a while...............But maybe JCVD could be considered as influencial, there has to be a whole generation that went out and signed up for MA classes after watching "Bloodsport".....

[Wado Heretic]

I think in terms of getting people through the door of Dojo and Gyms, plenty of martial artists turned action stars could be stated.

However, Bruce Lee and I would argue Chuck Norris are the stand-outs of that particular breed. Both brought martial arts to the Big Screen, but were also active in the martial arts world beyond exploitation, and gave back a lot. The argument for Bruce Lee has been made so I'll discuss Norris. He was a giant of early competitive martial arts, and his approach shaped a lot of what followed with the incorporation of many kicking techniques from Korean disciplines into Japanese and Okinawan schools of Karate that competed in the same circles. He was also an early endorser of Gracie Jujitsu in the United States, and was bringing the Gracies to the U.S.A years before any one had heard of them. He has founded his own discipline, and has had a positive impact on many people through his martial arts inspired philanthropic efforts. I did not include him before, because he's been around a while, and in discussing the current "era" I feel he perhaps falls outside of it, but I honestly cannot think of any martial artist still active in the entertainment industry who does as much in the world of martial arts.

I did once look into Dux's FAAST system, and I will say I have encountered far worse conceptual approaches; however, I have met many paper tigers who can talk a good talk simply through having read and talked to the right people who have actually done the leg work. Dux has legitimate skills, but none which live up to, or could ever facilitate, the claims he makes about his skills and accomplishments. He knows enough and is good enough to fool the untrained eye, and knows enough about physics tricks to put on a good show, but a once in a generation fighter of the level he claims? I do not think a font size exists which could express the NO that should answer that rhetorical question.

Saying that though, he has been influential for all the wrong reasons, as can be seen by the fact even 36 years after his claims were first published, and 28 after Bloodsport's release, people are still discussing him and there are still those who want to believe in Dux.

As I said in my first post on the thread though, we should probably discuss the Good, the Bad, and the plain Ugly, if we are delving into influence.

Rhonda Rousey has a lot of power and influence right now; but it is possibly ten or twenty years too early to include her among any of the luminaries discussed here. That is not a dig at Rousey, but the fact she is young and we have no idea of her true legacy yet; when we get a sense of her lasting power, and I believe she more then has it, we could add her to such a discussion.

[yamesu]

Mas Oyama

In MT circles, perhaps Buakaw.... He was for a long time a very dangerous fighter.

[Drew]

The reach of my instructor's influence isn't the reason I train with him . Of course, an expanded influence would mean more opportunities for him, and for me, but neither of us will stop training if it doesn't grow.

I think it will grow if you keep competing under his banner. Even if it's only local ammy shows. If you keep winning, which I believe you will because that first one was a VERY rough match up for you, a buzz will be created in the area you compete in, and opportunities will start presenting themselves. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, you know.

The traditional kickboxing skills you posses notwithstanding, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see you pull off some of those standing joint locks out of your bunkai vids. That kind of stuff is where the clinch in mma is headed: Shinya Aoki, Jones and less notable people have already demonstrated the potential even without a focus on the discipline. Not that I think you wanna go around trying to break peoples arms, but hey, it's a rough sport. Chicks dig casts anyway so you'd probably be doing them a favor.

Anyhow, Jack Slack, Lawrence Kenshin, BJJ Scout, and like a dozen other combat sport analysts are currently attempting to take over the internet, and they're gaining ground. I think if they aren't already the most influential minds surrounding martial arts they soon will be. The analysis movement is like a renaissance in martial thought. The way it lets the lay person and casual participant understand on a deep and fundamental level how the sports work is both raising the appreciation of the sport by fans and will ultimately drive the skill level of even the best up, as they have to race to stay ahead of the filthy, educated casuals.

[JR 137]

Mas Oyama

In MT circles, perhaps Buakaw.... He was for a long time a very dangerous fighter.

I know you say it with the smiley at the end, but I believe Mas Oyama is the most influential after the founding fathers' generation...

Each IKO (how many are there now, 5?) claims several million karateka

Then add the numbers from the following well known international Kyokushin offshoots:

Seido Juku

Seidokaikan

Ashihara

Enshin

World Oyama

Daido Juku

Kudo

Zendokai

Then there's independent Kyokushin dojos. Then there's local offshoots (a former Kyokushin or offshoot karateka starts his/her own school without using the Kyokushin name, and a few of his/her senior students do too).

Then there are the schools that don't have an Oyama lineage, but changed the way they did kumite once Kyokushin started gaining popularity.

IMO, after the founders, more karateka can most likely trace their lineage back to Mas Oyama than any other person. Perhaps being a Seido Juku student, I'm a bit biased. Maybe there is/was another Funakoshi student who stayed Shotokan that can rival Oyama's numbers?

Based on numbers (anecdotal, not actually counted), I'd have to say the Gracies with BJJ. If you limit it to the last 20ish years, Gracies, hands down. The last 50ish years, Oyama.

[vantheman]

The variety and heterogeneity of the martial arts world today is perhaps too big to point to one individual and claim that he/she is universally influencing our martial arts world. Here are a couple examples and their influences (be they positive or negative)

Chuck Norris: Bringing martial arts into mass popular culture as a bad-***, no-holds barred way of winning at life and giving your enemies a beat down.

Gracie Family: From their early work in the UFC to their continued influence through BJJ, these guys have seemed to really bring a Brazilian variety of the Eastern Asian philosophy into the Sport/Competitive Martial arts community. BJJ has really spread like a wildfire across the US, thanks largely to the Gracies.

And, dare I say it, Fred Villari

Like him or hate him, he has played a big role in the spread of more traditional martial arts throughout the Western world by means of his (might I say mildly controversial) commercialization tendencies. The influence of McDojos, while not one in the same with Villari-ism, is definitely facilitated by the models that Villari established early on in his days. Whether or not you respect his martial art, his business practices have played an undoubtedly influential role in 20th and 21st century martial arts as we have them today.

[yamesu]

Mas Oyama

In MT circles, perhaps Buakaw.... He was for a long time a very dangerous fighter.

I know you say it with the smiley at the end, but I believe Mas Oyama is the most influential after the founding fathers' generation...

Each IKO (how many are there now, 5?) claims several million karateka

Then add the numbers from the following well known international Kyokushin offshoots:

Seido Juku

Seidokaikan

Ashihara

Enshin

World Oyama

Daido Juku

Kudo

Zendokai

Then there's independent Kyokushin dojos. Then there's local offshoots (a former Kyokushin or offshoot karateka starts his/her own school without using the Kyokushin name, and a few of his/her senior students do too).

Then there are the schools that don't have an Oyama lineage, but changed the way they did kumite once Kyokushin started gaining popularity.

IMO, after the founders, more karateka can most likely trace their lineage back to Mas Oyama than any other person. Perhaps being a Seido Juku student, I'm a bit biased. Maybe there is/was another Funakoshi student who stayed Shotokan that can rival Oyama's numbers?

Based on numbers (anecdotal, not actually counted), I'd have to say the Gracies with BJJ. If you limit it to the last 20ish years, Gracies, hands down. The last 50ish years, Oyama.

I agree, it wasn't a smiley to be sarcastic - I truly believe that Sosai is the most influential of our generation. Certainly in my lifetime anyway.

[DWx]

Mas Oyama

In MT circles, perhaps Buakaw.... He was for a long time a very dangerous fighter.

I know you say it with the smiley at the end, but I believe Mas Oyama is the most influential after the founding fathers' generation...

Each IKO (how many are there now, 5?) claims several million karateka

Then add the numbers from the following well known international Kyokushin offshoots:

Seido Juku

Seidokaikan

Ashihara

Enshin

World Oyama

Daido Juku

Kudo

Zendokai

Then there's independent Kyokushin dojos. Then there's local offshoots (a former Kyokushin or offshoot karateka starts his/her own school without using the Kyokushin name, and a few of his/her senior students do too).

Then there are the schools that don't have an Oyama lineage, but changed the way they did kumite once Kyokushin started gaining popularity.

IMO, after the founders, more karateka can most likely trace their lineage back to Mas Oyama than any other person. Perhaps being a Seido Juku student, I'm a bit biased. Maybe there is/was another Funakoshi student who stayed Shotokan that can rival Oyama's numbers?

Based on numbers (anecdotal, not actually counted), I'd have to say the Gracies with BJJ. If you limit it to the last 20ish years, Gracies, hands down. The last 50ish years, Oyama.

Great post

Could you not argue by the same reasoning that some of the early TKD pioneers were just as influential; how many schools (even McDojo's) claim some training in it?