Another gkr story

[Gazhudson18]

I trained in gkr for almost a year. I was very kindly invited to their "sensei training programme" by my sensei and excitedly went after being told it would be a class of "karate greatness". I was only a yellow belt at the time 9th kyu and we started off with sparring. I was sparring with a 2nd dan black belt and gave him a very accurate front kick to his stomach. The whole class stopped and I got told I was not allowed to strike a higher grade student as this was bad etiquette. I asked what was bad about it as I thought we were all there to help each other improve our karate. The only answer they could give me was that it was traditional not to. We carried on sparring and as I was not able to strike I took a bit of a pasting. After 3 rounds I'd had enough and as he threw a jab I threw a overhand right and knocked him to the ground. After this I told them I had been a mma fighter for 10 years. Their reply was that it was bad etiquette to train in different martial arts without your senseis blessing. Could anyone tell me if all this etiquette stuff is just rubbish by gkr because I have been training in goju ryu now for 2 years and I have never been told of that kind of etiquette. Of course the etiquette of respect is still strong in my dojo it's just never been etiquette when it suits the senseis like in gkr.

[Hawkmoon]

Never had anyone tell me to submit or loose to a senior grade, for demonstration purposes sure, happy to be the punch dummy.

The only time I can say etiquette and senior grade.

But then I do Kyokushin I'm expected to fight to earn my grades, as our you guys in the MMA world, cant speak for other systems, but will suggest some, maybe many have to earn the rank in much teh same way.

GKR, well they are an odd bunch, I've my views on them, not all of them are that welcoming to be honest!

Regarding training with other systems (etiquette) short answer?

Yes, it is!

How strictly that is applied and followed is down to the 'instructor and 'school'.

Its 100% a Japanese thing born out of honor, respect and humility!

The budo code!

That as it may be, for me personally I think of it in more modern terms, its simply just plain old common curtesy.

A bit extreme but the principle is the same , you don't just jump into your dads or neighbors car just because its there you ask to borrow it.

GKR are a funny bunch that is for sure, but then others may say the same about each other schools as well, nothing new here.

Hence, I say plain old common curtesy!

[JR 137]

I don't think I've heard a single good GKR story, sadly. I'm sure there's some good in GKR, but all I've heard is nonsense.

I've never heard of the tradition of not hitting ranks higher than you. Control, respect, humility, etc., absolutely. But not that you're not allowed to hit them. I've come across some higher ranks that were pretty much impossible for me to hit, but that's completely different.

I will say that you shouldn't have hit him afterward with the overhand right. It's their house, and their rules. If you couldn't accept their rules, you should have figuratively and literally bowed out. Not passing judgment here;easier said than done. Not sure how I'd have handled being someone's punching bag. Not sure if he was taking advantage of the rules, and so on.

As to not training somewhere else at the same time, as Hawkmoon said, it's an old Japanese and Okinawan custom. Probably the same way throughout Eastern Asia. It probably was that way here too at one point, but times have changed here, for the most part. It's still common courtesy to tell your instructor and have his/her blessing so that there's no hard feelings.

Everyone's got their own rules and etiquette. There's a lot of crossover most times, but some places are really far out there. Other than not hitting the groin, face, etc. for obvious safety concerns, we have a policy in our dojo that lower kyu grades aren't allowed to kick to the legs/thighs and head. That's due to a lack of control with lower grades and trying to avoid unintended injuries. You don't want a person who just learned how to throw a roundhouse kick aiming for their opponent's thigh and end up kicking their knee instead. You don't want them trying to kick someone with a hook kick to the temple and not be able to just tap the target, or hurt themselves in the process.

[Gazhudson18]

I definitely regret lashing out at the guy. It wasn't good etiquette in any school of martial arts and with more experience now would take another action I.e. Bowing out like you suggested. I was just wondering if their was different etiquette at different karate styles or whether they are all pretty much the same.

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

Never heard of such etiquette that you shouldn't hit a higher belt during sparring. Now, there are clubs that spar with "minimal-" or "no-contact" rules that may or may not be officially stated or mutually agreed upon. If you, as a MMA fighter, hit that black belt harder than their consensus allows they might tell you not to hit.. and from there on a misunderstanding could take its way.

Also, they should have asked you about your previous experience when you joined so that there are no such surprises. For example, I am keen to have people with lots of mixed MA backgrounds (not only MMA, though). We can always learn from another!

On the other hand, if a club tells you that cross training in other martial arts is not allowed/ not appropriate, this tastes a lot like McDojo to me. To clarify this statement: Informing your Sensei that you want to visit another Dojo / style / art should be a courtesy from your side. Your Sensei's reaction then will reveal a lot about him/her. Is your growth priority or his club? Is he secure in his skills or afraid that you might leave for good?

I am quite happy that the Goju Ryu guys treat you better

[Gazhudson18]

The goju club I train at is great. There's a good understanding about contact. If you give a good technique with contact your going to get a good contact technique back!😀 Contact is never excessive for obvious reasons and this leads to a great training environment. As for the cross training my sensei at gkr didn't seem too fussed about it but it was the regional managers who didn't agree with it. Maybe because they were worried I'd be spending my money elsewhere. My goju sensei likes the idea of cross training as she says that no martial art is perfect and much can be learned from other martial arts to increase ones knowledge.

[Nidan Melbourne]

In terms of cross training i have had in terms of etiquette that i should have consent from my sensei. But it was more in terms of private training where there could be changes made to things and out of respect of other instructors & of what they teach.

In terms of kumite and not making contact with senior grades. I feel it is silly because it isn't helping the senior grade nor is it helping you learning how to fight. Also you are not really learning what level of contact you can endure is and what they can do is as well.

IMHO i think they might be thinking along the lines that no one in their right mind would hit a black belt nor should they. Which is i feel is wrong because senior ranks are senior ranks even black belts. They aren't invincible

[sensei8]

The etiquette of the gkr is THEIR etiquette!! As far as you striking the 2nd Dan, well, the 2nd Dan should've better defended himself, especially against a 9th kyu; no excuses for his inabilities!! In short, hit the upper rank, and it's their fault if they DO get hit...I say...hit away!!

While it might be a form of etiquette to get the blessing of ones Sensei before training in another style of the MA, it should be remembered that it's YOUR choice, and not that of your Sensei. This type of etiquette was deeply rooted back in the 60's - 80's, but now, imho, those days are days from yesteryear, and not so much realized today. I don't own my students, in that, they're free to train with whomever and in whatever style of the MA they want.

[JackD]

Etiquettely the 2nd dan should have actually been thanking you. Every time you get a good knock, (from a higher or lower grade) should be a valuable lesson learned!

[bushido_man96]

The point of training in the Martial Arts it learning to apply techniques. You can't do that without having some equal rules when it comes to partner training. It sounds to me like these "rules of etiquette" are being used to cover the inadequacies of their instructors. I think this is also brought on by how they use their instructor program.

If I was training there, and heard those excuses, I wouldn't train there anymore.