Soto/Uchi uke & Chudan variants: History and variations

[Slingblade01]

I'm looking for explanations for the variations of:

Soto uke & Chudan Soto uke

Uchi uke & Chudan Uchi uke

Specifically, I would like to know which masters/ schools/ styles taught them between Funakoshi, Toyama, Mabuni, and Chibana?

Also, what is the thought process of the Chudan variations?

Thank you,

David

[Wastelander]

To the best of my knowledge, those techniques exist, in some form or another, in every karate style. They may call them something different, or do them slightly differently, but the general movement and idea is there. The trouble is that there are going to be lots of variations, so it's going to be hard to figure out exactly what you're looking for.

If this is any help, "soto-uke" is "outside receiver," and "uchi-uke" is "inner receiver." The trouble is that some people name the technique based on the movement, and some name it based on the part of the body being used. If you're naming it after the movement, then "soto-uke" moves across the body toward the outside, and "uchi-uke" moves across the body toward the inside. If you're naming based on the part of the body, then that can be reversed, because "soto-uke" would use the outside of the arm, while "uchi-uke" would use the inside of the arm.

[Slingblade01]

Thanks for the definitions and the clarification on the varying use of nomenclature. That clears up a one question.

What does chudan mean?

I guess I should have phrased my original question better:

Soto uke vs Chudan Soto uke

Uchi uke vs Chudan Uchi uke

Do any styles use one exclusively over another?

Do any styles show tendencies towards chudan vs non-chudan versions?

Which is older?

Are there any known origins of chudan and non-chudan versions?

[Spartacus Maximus]

Simple translation from Japanese: chudan=mid level. This height is the level of one's own solar plexus.

Soto=outer or outside. This means your arm starts from your centre and finishes to the outside. Contact is made with the side your thumb is on.

Uchi=inside or inner. This means your arm makes contact with the little finger side. The arm travelling towards the inside, slightly angled with the fist stopping at the height of the opposite shoulder.

Source of information is my Okinawan teacher who was taught by Chibana's senior student and successor.

[Slingblade01]

Ok, now I understand why my question makes no sense.

I am aware of two variations of soto & uchi uke.

What makes these two variations different is not the blocking arm but rather the other arm (elbow strike/grab/escape/clear...).

In these different variations, this "other" arm is either chambered out like a punch or chambered across the body prior to the application of the technique.

When I went to youtube for clarification, the 2 or 3 chudan labeled blocks were chambered across the body and the non-chudan blocks were chambered out like a punch. Obviously, I didn't research enough. After reading your answers, I just found examples to contradict my assumptions.

This brings me back to my re-revised question...why the two different chambers of the non-blocking arm and are the akin to specific styles?

Sorry for the earlier uneducated question.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The basic principle with these techniques is that they start in front of the body and move across it. They begin front the same area a punch would. Without visuals it is difficult to see exactly what you mean. Variations are common between styles and individuals, but the fundamental principles that make the techniques effective are the same. It is also worthy of note that there will be differences between how they look in action and application and the "textbook correct" form as it is taught and practised in the dojo.

[sensei8]

Think of them as a torque driven technique where you go from one side of the body to the opposite side, and of course, the hips drive the torque...kind of like, to every action there's an equal and opposite action. And it that, styles have made the necessary changes to match their own methodologies and ideologies.

One style will do this to do that for the sake of effectiveness, however, to separate themselves from other styles. Do they torque as much or more for effectiveness? Or to just be different, yet being effective.

Hand, arm, posture orientations will do favor and reflect the who, where, when, what, why, and how techniques are to be delivered to said target for both offensive and defensive per the styles desires.

You've asked some great and important questions as a student of the MA, don't ever be dissuaded by asking questions. Please always consider the advice of your Sensei and/or the governing body over others; but other viewpoints can help or harm ones MA betterment. It's your MA journey, so get as many viewpoints as necessary to improve. You've received some pretty good advice here thus far from other KF members, imho.

Good luck, train hard and train well!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

At my dojo + old club we have (I'm a Goju-Ryu Practitioner):

Chudan Uke (Rarely we call it Yoko Uke) = Middle Block

Uchi Uke = Inward Deflecting Block

Has a 'Go' variation + a 'Ju' Variation so in other words we have a Hard Version (Match the opposing technique with brunt force) and a Soft Version (Absorb + Redirect)

Soto Uke = Outward Deflecting Block

Each of those blocks at Chudan Level each require appropriate height (obviously Duh!) and the three have different hip motions.

[Slingblade01]

Ok, forget that ever mentioned Chudan.

Where my confusion lies is the variations of the chambering of the non-blocking hand.

Below are some examples:

Soto uke with non-blocking chambered straight out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzn1XgAUBpU

Soto uke with non-blocking arm in covering the body.

Uchi uke with non-blocking chambered straight out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDjWZfdonLo

Uchi uke with non-blocking arm in covering the body.

[JR 137]

In Seido, we have chudan uchi uke, and chudan soto uke. Occasionally the chudan part is dropped, as there's no high or low equivalent of them.

Chudan uchi uke - Middle inside-out block. Starts from the inside with the arms crossed about chest height, the non-blocking hand gets chambered while the blocking hand goes to outside of the body. If a punch is coming, you're deflecting the punch toward the attacker's outside, opening up their torso for a counter.

Chudan soto uke - Middle outside-in block. Non-blocking hand comes across the chest while the blocking arm reaches out past the torso, elbow and shoulder at about 90 degrees. Non-blocking hand gets chambered at the armpit while the blocking arm swings from outside your body to just past your sternum. If a punch is coming, it's deflected across the attacker's body, leaving the ribs open and in a defenseless position. I've heard Enshin refer to this position as the blind spot; JKD as the defenseless pocket.

I've seen some Okinawan systems do these (particularly Uechi Ryu) in a way that looks completely different. But every different way I've seen them done has pretty much the same effect when attacked - deflect the punch across the attacker's body or away from the attacker's body. The chambering hand can also be used as a grab with the "blocking hand" being a strike. The blocking hand can also grab with the deflection.

What it looks like without an attacker and what you call it doesn't matter. The application is what's important, and most traditional schools apply them the same way. Same goes for low block (gedan brai) and high block (jodan uke). Sport karate is a different matter.