Am I wrong to be irked by this?

[bigpopparob2000]

There's a service that many traditional martial arts schools offer that drives me absolutely nuts. I'm speaking of hosting children's birthday parties. Whenever I've look at a school's website, even if everything else looks impressive, as soon as I see that it offers this service, I can't take the school seriously. I believe the purpose of martial arts and, by extention, their places of instruction is to pass on the skills to defend one's self and loved ones and the moral code to use those skills appropriately. When school seems to be simultaneoulsy competing with Chuck-E-Cheese, my McDojo detector goes bonkers.

My question is why do some schools do this? I realize they need to turn a profit, but is such a service really a significant source of revenue? Is it a marketing tactic to get a bunch of kids through the door who normally wouldn't come, and some will sign up for lessons? If so, do any of you know someone who became interested in martial arts through attending such an event? Am I out of line to be so put off, or am I correctly reacting to a possible McDojo warning sign? I'd greatly appreciate any insight on the subject.

[gronis]

I've never heard of this before but I suddenly feel like vomiting.

[Patrick]

I get a kick out of your username whenever I see it, bigpopparob2000. Glad that you're still with us after all of these years.

I don't think you are "out of line" at all. Perhaps just a little oversensitive about something that really doesn't affect you.

I golf and have been around the game my entire life. I know it to be a game of integrity and honor. When you make an error resulting in a penalty, you are often the only one who knows it. As such, you self-report it. Otherwise, you are cheating. For all the people who take mulligans, there are plenty who play the game by the rules and try to card a good score.

There is also a lot of etiquette that comes into play. Where to walk, how to fix your ball mark, rake the bunker when you exit it, etc. You leave the course as it was when you came. I also follow a general standard of dress.

But at the same time, if I see a bunch of 4-8 year olds with untucked shirts running around the range beating balls in all directions, I don't get offended or scowl at them. I smile. Most of them won't play golf when they get older, maybe some will. But it doesn't matter to me.

Looking at martial art schools, I think you have an activity that is very attractive to little kids. Who hasn't pretended to be a ninja? If that's all it is, a birthday party where you pretend to be a ninja, I don't see the harm. The martial arts is a serious thing, but it does not need to always take itself seriously.

I certainly wouldn't use it to judge the quality of the school. A martial arts school is, for a majority of its hours, an unused space that someone is paying rent for. If they want to use that space to host a birthday party and help the bottom line a little, that seems like a reasonable use of the space.

I'm sure some kids do become students after they (or, perhaps more accurately, their parents) discover a school due to a party, but I think for most schools that do it, it's probably just a common sense, safe way to generate a few dollars, more than a marketing idea.

Just my thoughts.

Patrick

[sensei8]

I get a kick out of your username whenever I see it, bigpopparob2000. Glad that you're still with us after all of these years.

I don't think you are "out of line" at all. Perhaps just a little oversensitive about something that really doesn't affect you.

I golf and have been around the game my entire life. I know it to be a game of integrity and honor. When you make an error resulting in a penalty, you are often the only one who knows it. As such, you self-report it. Otherwise, you are cheating. For all the people who take mulligans, there are plenty who play the game by the rules and try to card a good score.

There is also a lot of etiquette that comes into play. Where to walk, how to fix your ball mark, rake the bunker when you exit it, etc. You leave the course as it was when you came. I also follow a general standard of dress.

But at the same time, if I see a bunch of 4-8 year olds with untucked shirts running around the range beating balls in all directions, I don't get offended or scowl at them. I smile. Most of them won't play golf when they get older, maybe some will. But it doesn't matter to me.

Looking at martial art schools, I think you have an activity that is very attractive to little kids. Who hasn't pretended to be a ninja? If that's all it is, a birthday party where you pretend to be a ninja, I don't see the harm. The martial arts is a serious thing, but it does not need to always take itself seriously.

I certainly wouldn't use it to judge the quality of the school. A martial arts school is, for a majority of its hours, an unused space that someone is paying rent for. If they want to use that space to host a birthday party and help the bottom line a little, that seems like a reasonable use of the space.

I'm sure some kids do become students after they (or, perhaps more accurately, their parents) discover a school due to a party, but I think for most schools that do it, it's probably just a common sense, safe way to generate a few dollars, more than a marketing idea.

Just my thoughts.

Patrick

Solid post!!

Birthday parties are good! I do them...our Hombu does them...many, if not all, Shindokan dojo's do them. However, the reasons that we do birthday parties isn't to pad the bottom line because I believe that that robs the spirit of the birthday party. Have fun...eat cake...open present...play games...drink Kool-Aid...a wholesome harmless party. We don't charge to use the dojo for a birthday party because...well...we just don't.

The reasons we do birthday parties is to get to know each other away from the floor. To show genuine interest in the student body, the parents, their friends, and so on and so forth. Expressing social graces costs absolutely nothing.

We celebrate a Testing Cycle, and think nothing about it. Why not the same thing for a student that's just turned 7 years old, and wants to have the birthday party at the dojo/Hombu!! I think it's vital for the students to not think of the dojo/Hombu as a cold and dead place. Albeit, a vibrant and exciting place to want to go to aside from daily MA classes; get those all year, but a birthday, well, that comes once a year.

The dojo's there to train in a MA, but the dojo isn't a cardboard cutout of a time long gone.

[liger]

I get a kick out of your username whenever I see it, bigpopparob2000. Glad that you're still with us after all of these years.

I don't think you are "out of line" at all. Perhaps just a little oversensitive about something that really doesn't affect you.

I golf and have been around the game my entire life. I know it to be a game of integrity and honor. When you make an error resulting in a penalty, you are often the only one who knows it. As such, you self-report it. Otherwise, you are cheating. For all the people who take mulligans, there are plenty who play the game by the rules and try to card a good score.

There is also a lot of etiquette that comes into play. Where to walk, how to fix your ball mark, rake the bunker when you exit it, etc. You leave the course as it was when you came. I also follow a general standard of dress.

But at the same time, if I see a bunch of 4-8 year olds with untucked shirts running around the range beating balls in all directions, I don't get offended or scowl at them. I smile. Most of them won't play golf when they get older, maybe some will. But it doesn't matter to me.

Looking at martial art schools, I think you have an activity that is very attractive to little kids. Who hasn't pretended to be a ninja? If that's all it is, a birthday party where you pretend to be a ninja, I don't see the harm. The martial arts is a serious thing, but it does not need to always take itself seriously.

I certainly wouldn't use it to judge the quality of the school. A martial arts school is, for a majority of its hours, an unused space that someone is paying rent for. If they want to use that space to host a birthday party and help the bottom line a little, that seems like a reasonable use of the space.

I'm sure some kids do become students after they (or, perhaps more accurately, their parents) discover a school due to a party, but I think for most schools that do it, it's probably just a common sense, safe way to generate a few dollars, more than a marketing idea.

Just my thoughts.

Patrick

Solid post!!

Birthday parties are good! I do them...our Hombu does them...many, if not all, Shindokan dojo's do them. However, the reasons that we do birthday parties isn't to pad the bottom line because I believe that that robs the spirit of the birthday party. Have fun...eat cake...open present...play games...drink Kool-Aid...a wholesome harmless party. We don't charge to use the dojo for a birthday party because...well...we just don't.

The reasons we do birthday parties is to get to know each other away from the floor. To show genuine interest in the student body, the parents, their friends, and so on and so forth. Expressing social graces costs absolutely nothing.

We celebrate a Testing Cycle, and think nothing about it. Why not the same thing for a student that's just turned 7 years old, and wants to have the birthday party at the dojo/Hombu!! I think it's vital for the students to not think of the dojo/Hombu as a cold and dead place. Albeit, a vibrant and exciting place to want to go to aside from daily MA classes; get those all year, but a birthday, well, that comes once a year.

The dojo's there to train in a MA, but the dojo isn't a cardboard cutout of a time long gone.

No you have the right to be irked by it yet I have to agree with Sensei 8 and Patrik. We all have our own views on martial arts and what we want out of it.

Plus kids love these thing's. It is something fun for them and has the potential to market and or network so you can possibly make some new students from these events. We are in a world where you have to get your name out against the big mcdojos that have a full advertising budget.

The only thing I do not agree with is the honorary Black belts given out by some of those that do these. That is just my opinion on it.

I honestly was like the original poster and completely against yet helping my sensei get the word out and advertise my dojo I can see that anything has the possibility to get your name out. I have chosen to ask if he wants the help and he agreed to it. I am just better at the Facebook and other digital mediums to get the name out than he is. I know off topic just rather explain now then get a bunch of questions. I love the art and believe we need to connect with the kids/teens/adults out there and using different mediums attract different groups of people.

[bigpopparob2000]

Hi, Patrick. Yep, I may not post much, but I'm certainly still here. I was really into weight lifting and body building when I was in high school, and I used to crack my friends up by doing Scott Steiner impersonations. That's where I got my handle; it was a play on Scott Steiner's moniker, Big Poppa Pump. It's nice to see I still get laughs.

I hope I didn't come across as excessively curmudgeonly. I certainly don't scowl at kids or roll my eyes when I meet instructors who offer this service at their schools. It's just a personal peeve, and it's not allieviated at all by the fact that the schools that just focus on martial arts tend to be better regarded. Specifically, MMA, Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, Kali, Wing Chun all seem to be in this camp. I agree that it doesn't effect me to a certain extent, but my primary discipline is in a art that struggles to be taken as seriously as those others, so I can't help but be bothered when I see a school doing something that might be exacerbating the problem.

Thank you for your post, all the same. You definitely provided a perspective I had not considered.

[IcemanSK]

While I've seen birthday parties at schools done in a cheesy way, most kids birthdays are cheesy. But that's okay. What I wanted at my birthday at 8 isn't the same thing as I want now.

Here's the thing, if a child loves training, why not have their birthday party around what they love doing? It also makes a positive connection for the child around class. I see it as a potentially positive thing.

[DWx]

Birthday parties are good! I do them...our Hombu does them...many, if not all, Shindokan dojo's do them. However, the reasons that we do birthday parties isn't to pad the bottom line because I believe that that robs the spirit of the birthday party. Have fun...eat cake...open present...play games...drink Kool-Aid...a wholesome harmless party. We don't charge to use the dojo for a birthday party because...well...we just don't.

The reasons we do birthday parties is to get to know each other away from the floor. To show genuine interest in the student body, the parents, their friends, and so on and so forth. Expressing social graces costs absolutely nothing.

We celebrate a Testing Cycle, and think nothing about it. Why not the same thing for a student that's just turned 7 years old, and wants to have the birthday party at the dojo/Hombu!! I think it's vital for the students to not think of the dojo/Hombu as a cold and dead place. Albeit, a vibrant and exciting place to want to go to aside from daily MA classes; get those all year, but a birthday, well, that comes once a year.

The dojo's there to train in a MA, but the dojo isn't a cardboard cutout of a time long gone.

That's a great post Bob. My instructor recently started offering them and to be honest I wasn't on-board with it really as it didn't sit right with me. The idea behind doing them is to use it as an introduction to Martial Arts and get kids through the door. We already have self defense and fitness taster courses for adults so it's good to have an avenue for kids to get involved too. Not sure if they've actually had any takers on the offer yet though.

I do like your point about it social thing too with your extended MA family.

[Spartacus Maximus]

There is not nor has there ever been any sort of explicit or implicit rule that prevents martial arts schools to organize social events. Socializing is part of any group activity and there is nothing really wrong with holding these non-training events as long as they do not interfere with the main activity, which in this case happens to be the practise of martial arts.

Birthday parties, barbecues, haunted dojo's, whatever. If everyone trains seriously and with honest effort when it is time to do so, whatever happens afterwards may as well be fun. Traditional or not, most schools have a student body made up of children and youth. A majority make more than 80% of their income from these students. It only makes sense to appeal to these ages groups.

[Patrick]

Hi, Patrick. Yep, I may not post much, but I'm certainly still here. I was really into weight lifting and body building when I was in high school, and I used to crack my friends up by doing Scott Steiner impersonations. That's where I got my handle; it was a play on Scott Steiner's moniker, Big Poppa Pump. It's nice to see I still get laughs.

Thanks for the backstory. And for starting this thread. I'm sure you aren't alone in your feelings.

Patrick