Weird scenario, married man, female friend in dojo

[CTTKDKing]

So I wanted opinions, but wasn't sure where to ask, and I'm not even 100% sure how to ask where everything is going to sound right, but here's a whack at it. Sorry if it seems like I'm rambling.

I've been training since 2004 and have made many close friends over the years in the dojo because of the dynamic that develops when working together in this manner. Some of those relationships have lasted for years even if we've stopped training together and are to date some of the best friends i have.

A rank or 2 behind me in my current regular karate class there's a girl (age 26-27) who I've been assigned to work with many many times now and we've become good "karate friends". Up until recently the friendship was limited to the dojo. For the record, I'm 32 and have been married for 9 years (together for 14) happily with no incidents of cheating or anything like that on either side of the relationship. Trust is as high as it can possibly get.

In the last couple of months myself and this girl have begun to talk because she and another student saw my martial arts blog on the school Facebook page and read an old article I published years ago about a sexual assault victim that I aided in rehabilitation from the PTSD she had developed from the attack through a martial arts program that my assistant Taekwondo instructor facilitated. There was more to it than just martial arts though (consoling and delivery of coping techniques and outlet venting of feelings) and I watched first hand as this woman went through a huge positive transformation over the few months she worked with us.

Now I've never had a chance to work with another person who was a victim and as it turns out this girl from my class was on more than one occasion, not necessarily of sexual assault, but of being assaulted in general. She approached me to ask if I'm still doing that type of program. I'm not currently and was very inexperienced when I played my part in the first one I participated in (I was chosen as an attack simulator because I'm a large man but what I witnessed in those closed sessions changed me and stuck with me). This is something I've always wanted to do again as I saw how much we helped that first person, and now being older and more educated I know what emotionally, chemically and physically crimes like rape can do to a person (criminology and psychology classes).

I told her about my idea which in a nutshell involves a series of videos with easy to learn and practice self defense techniques that actually work, plus a place where people suffering after an attack can reach out to talk to someone (probably through the web) and receive guidance and coping techniques. Since it's something I've been working on, on the side on and off over the years I asked, since she's been attacked herself, but had gotten past the trauma side of it, if she could work with me and help me to test some of the techniques I have written out to see if a 130lb female can execute them on someone much larger like myself, and if in her opinion these would have helped in her real life defense scenarios had she known them then. I feel this incite is incredibly valuable to what I'm trying to accomplish.

She was/is all in and because of our discussing of these topics she started reaching out to me via email and text message to give other ideas on where/how we could develop more techniques. One example being that a friend of her's not 2 weeks ago was attacked in the passenger seat of a car by the driver. She ended up having to jump from a moving vehicle. She came out a little banged up but alive with just some scrapes and minor tendon damage to her wrist.

Now the problem and question:

Problem: My wife doesn't like that I'm communicating frequently with a single female that's around our age. Some more back story if you think that, based on my above scenario and the fact that after 14 years we've both been 100% faithful, that's irrational. My wife had a rough childhood and suffers from abandonment issues revolving around her father abandoning her and emotionally abusive mother. Most of the time she's completely rational, but in the case of female friends, she's sometimes been quite the opposite. I grew up with a little sister and all of her friends always being around, so I'm very comfortable with girls and having non-romantic relationships with them and she knows that but sometimes, like now, the abandonment thing creeps back in and causes her to get upset if I make a new friend of the opposite sex.

Questions: Married men and women out there: what, in your experiences, is the best way to deal with a situation like this where I feel the girls input is super important to the goal, but the wife can only see the girl and not the goal? Also do you think that men and women can be friends in the dojo or in life in general to the point where regular, we'll say weekly, communication is happening, and not have it affect your marriage and home lives? My wife thinks we cannot have friends of the opposite sex, at least not in the way we do with the same sex, which is something I've disagreed with over the years but is a subject on which she can't seem to see my point of view. She feels that over time stronger feelings will develop and it's playing with fire.

Thoughts?

Apologies for putting this here if it's the wrong place. Not sure what category this should fall under in the forum so if you need to move it on me that's fine.

[IcemanSK]

My thoughts as a married guy, and someone in the mental health field, FWIW. You need to be completely open & honest with your wife about these discussions. Inviting her to be a part of these online discussions or in person talks (helping out in some way) might be a good idea as well. She may have valuable insight into what you're working on. A lot of us men who teach self-defense feel that we understand every aspect involved in assaults, but there is a lot we miss because of lack of the female perspective.

This new idea of your's sounds great. Just involve your wife as much as you can (ask for her input, tell her your plans etc.) and don't make it a mystery to herin any way. Her comfort level about it needs to be a concern above your project. The fact that you are concerned about your wife's feelings on this is a good sign.

Let us know how the entire thing progresses. All my best.

[CTTKDKing]

Thanks for your reply IcemanSK.

I have been fairly open about it but I suppose I could be more inclusive in the creation process. She's agreed to be my control point. As a person that's never done martial arts, she's the perfect person to see if the techniques I'm cherry picking and modifying for this will work for a lady that's never practiced martial arts.

We had a discussion last night about setting some boundaries with my friend. She wants to come watch us try out techniques on an open mat time, which I said was obviously not a problem.

In your opinion as a mental health person, how should the abandonment issue be handled. This isn't the first time in out 14 years that this has been an issue. She says she trusts me more than anyone and I've never given her a reason not to, but then gets upset and accuses me of things that she knows hasn't happened and would never happen.

It hurts me when she does this because it feels like she doesn't trust me. Even if something were to happen from my friend's side, like she fell for me and made a move (which has not and I believe has no chance of happening), I feel like after 14 years my wife should trust that i'd do the right thing and walk out.

[IcemanSK]

Thanks for your reply IcemanSK.

I have been fairly open about it but I suppose I could be more inclusive in the creation process. She's agreed to be my control point. As a person that's never done martial arts, she's the perfect person to see if the techniques I'm cherry picking and modifying for this will work for a lady that's never practiced martial arts.

We had a discussion last night about setting some boundaries with my friend. She wants to come watch us try out techniques on an open mat time, which I said was obviously not a problem.

In your opinion as a mental health person, how should the abandonment issue be handled. This isn't the first time in out 14 years that this has been an issue. She says she trusts me more than anyone and I've never given her a reason not to, but then gets upset and accuses me of things that she knows hasn't happened and would never happen.

It hurts me when she does this because it feels like she doesn't trust me. Even if something were to happen from my friend's side, like she fell for me and made a move (which has not and I believe has no chance of happening), I feel like after 14 years my wife should trust that i'd do the right thing and walk out.

Sometimes, one of the biggest barriers that we have to trusting another is the hurt we experienced in our past. Our past colors our perception of the present. Perhaps speaking with a therapist (either by herself or as a couple) may help her work through these issues. You're married, so they are your issues as well. The best way to help is to be her partner, rather than to say, "she has to deal with what I'm doing & not be jealous." (Not that you're doing that: but it's a natural feeling). Helping her by understanding that she is bothered by something you're doing is important. Including her, reassuring her, getting her a neutral person to speak with etc. are great ways to demonstrate to her that her concerns are important to you. At the end of the day, your ability to understand her concerns is more important than this project.

[CTTKDKing]

Solid advice. Thank you.

I have suggested a therapist for both of us on this topic but whenever it's something for her health, to her, it's like it's not important and I feel like mental health issues by many are looked at as less important than physical ailments. For example, I get a cold and she makes me stay home from work and go to the doctor if I'm not better in a day or 2, but same scenario with her being sick with the flu and she'll refuse to go to the doctor and try and let it sort itself out until she's so sick that she's barely able to stand.

I'd like to get a neutral person for her to speak to but who that person should be is a tough one.

Thanks for your replies. It's good to get some outside perspective.

[JR 137]

IcemanSK is right on IMO. I hold a master's in counseling, but never practiced, but what he's saying is textbook without being textbook.

Involve your wife as much as possible, but remember who's most important. Do you want to risk unrepairable damage to your marriage? I have no reason to doubt you'll do exactly as you say you'll do, so please don't take it that way.

This is definitely an issue that your wife should work out with a counselor. It's not as simple as it seems. What you're seeing is most likely superficial, the issues run deeper, and those need to be confronted.

If you address it as "you're sick and need help" (in a nice way of course), you won't get anywhere. I'd suggest addressing it as a way to strengthen your marriage even more.

Please don't take everything I've said as gospel. All I know is what you've written here. Just some friendly advice.

[CTTKDKing]

Thank you for your reply. As we know abandonment is the issue on her side, I've been reading some psyc papers and articles on the subject to better understand myself how to work with her on it and I feel I've gotten a good grasp from today's readings on some things I can do to make things better. I of course do not want to cause damage to my relationship with my wife and plan to stop any activities that cause a risk there by making her uncomfortable.

I have made everything transparent and I've also talked with my karate friend and set some boundaries, which thankfully she was fully understanding of and when it comes time to test techniques with my karate friend, I'm going to invite my wife to join us.

Things seem to be ok at the moment, now that I've talked to everyone and it's all out in the open. I thank you guys for your inputs and welcome any other advice if anyone has anything different to add.

[sensei8]

I'd appease the wife, and direct the female student to other avenues for assistance. Why? Your wife, imho, is paramount with no ambiguity. What front do you want to help; your home life or a female student. It's a tough decision to make. But is it?!?

As an instructor, we're not bound by some ethic rule that says we must help...like a doctor who's vowed to care for the patient before them. Sure, we want to help in any capacity that we can, but, an instructor is there to teach the MA and the like.

Having said that, do what YOUR heart directs you, the decision you make, while difficult, will make all of the difference in someone's life. Nonetheless, there's a saying...If the wife isn't happy, nobody else will be either!! Both, your wife and this female student have solid reasons, and experiences that must be taken in consideration. I don't envy the situation that you're in!

I sound cold, but I'm not.

[CTTKDKing]

I'd appease the wife, and direct the female student to other avenues for assistance. Why? Your wife, imho, is paramount with no ambiguity. What front do you want to help; your home life or a female student. It's a tough decision to make. But is it?!?

As an instructor, we're not bound by some ethic rule that says we must help...like a doctor who's vowed to care for the patient before them. Sure, we want to help in any capacity that we can, but, an instructor is there to teach the MA and the like.

Having said that, do what YOUR heart directs you, the decision you make, while difficult, will make all of the difference in someone's life. Nonetheless, there's a saying...If the wife isn't happy, nobody else will be either!! Both, your wife and this female student have solid reasons, and experiences that must be taken in consideration. I don't envy the situation that you're in!

I sound cold, but I'm not.

I hear you. We've talked several times since last night when this all came to a head, and I think we are at a good spot. I contacted my friend and spelled out the boundaries that we need as a married couple, and she fully understood and agreed to all terms without question. Her response was supportive of my decision and she also wanted me to pass sentiment that no harm was meant toward my wife, to my wife, and that based on what I've told her, my wife sounds like a wonderful person and she'd love to try and get to know her because she doesn't have many friends around here as she's only lived here for a little over a year. I showed my wife the message thread for maximum transparency.

This went a long way with my wife and her comfort level with the whole situation. As part of the agreement our contact outside the dojo will be limited to emails specifically about the curriculum I'm putting together and when I'm going to talk to my friend I'll let my wife know before hand. My wife is comfortable with all of this and my friend is fully supportive of the restrictions, so I think through all of this, everyone is going to come out happy.

Thank you for all of your inputs. This was a weird situation as the title says and I was unsure exactly where to go. I've been a member on this site for a long time, and while i'm not a heavy poster like sensei8 I've always checked out karateforums for any serious discussion on real world martial arts topics. I'm glad I could come here to discuss this. While not exactly martial arts related, it does involve a certain element of my life crossing to my martial arts life and opinions from other real martial artists helped.

Peace to you all.

[Bulltahr]

Very sound advice above.

Keep in mind that just when you think everything is going well, watch out for the curve balls..........

Us guys sometimes aren't the quickest to read the situation.

(From my personal experience anyway!)

Good luck.