No stretching in class?

[Judodad_karateson]

I'm not the world more experienced MA. I've boxed, I've done Judo, and I've sat in on some other MA classes of various styles. The currently Karate class my son and I attend is great, good people, a solid instructor with a proven tract record, etc. But, they don't stretch before class. Normally, the first 5 minutes of any activity of this nature I've been involved in is spent stretching. I don't even see students stretch on their own before class.

Is this abnormal? We DO have a warm up period, but not so much as a 30 second handing hands. Thoughts?

[JR 137]

Believe it or not, static stretching is very overrated. It's best done after activity as part of a cool down. It has been scientifically proven to decrease performance in runners when done before exercise. Yes, we're not runners, but it should be studied IMO. If you watch professional athletes warm-up, you won't see them do static stretching at all. Not since probably the late 80s - mid 90s. Static stretching is along the lines of touch your toes and hold for 20 seconds.

Dynamic stretching is far more beneficial. Dynamic stretching is stretching while moving. Front stretch kick (Mae keagi), side stretch kick (yoko keagi) are some examples. Your important flexibility gains are going to be had this way.

Not sure what your dojo's doing. Mine does a lot of static stretching, but we do a good bit of dynamic as well.

[Judodad_karateson]

Fancinating. I'll have to read more about this! The warm up certianly does involve qiute a few stretching kicks and similar movements.. .

[Luther unleashed]

We always do a workout, then we cool down with dynamic strestretching, then we proceed with class. Last 5 min of class we do static stretching. Research suggests its more effective after a workout then before. If class runs over we skip but not usually .

I'm not too keen on no stretching at all but if one is to become more feflexavke it's going to require ykybto stretch at home anyways. Ten min of stretching a week isn't going to cut it. I think if the class is very good then compensate by stretching at home, the most important part of the class is of course the martial arts lessons and energy of class

[Lupin1]

This is interesting stuff. We do about 5-10 minutes of static stretching with the kids at the beginning of every class. The only dynamic stretch we do is leg swings and we only do five on each leg after we've done our static stretching. We've literally been doing the same warmup for at least the past 20 years (at least since I started when I was .

Adults are expected to come a few minutes early and warm up themselves before class starts, though we usually start with some slow, easy kata to warm up before going harder.

Next time I'm in charge of class, I'll have to try to add some more dynamic stretching into our warm up.

[JR 137]

The martial arts always seem to lag behind when it comes to changes in what we know about exercise physiology for some reason. I think it has to do with such a reliance on tradition, and many teachers doing what they were taught and passing down what they were taught to the next generation.

Exercise physiology has really exploded over the last 20 years. So many old-school things have been proven counter-productive or outright wrong, yet we continue to do them.

Another example is crunches. They don't strengthen the abdominals much. They're a highly inefficient exercise compared to so many other things, yet they're done religiously in MA. Instead of having students do 20 crunches, have them hold a plank for 20 seconds.

On the flip-side of that, a lot of old-school stuff that gets forgotten actually gets proven to be highly effective too. Squat thrusts, aka burpees are a great exercise that used to be as common as push-ups have made a come back because they're a great exercise. Mountain climbers too.

Traditional MA teachers need to keep an eye on the rest of the fitness industry and exercise physiology. If you're doing scientifically backed stuff (from a credible source, not fly by night personal trainer mail order certifications), it can only help your students.

I am biased having a background in sports medicine and working with NCAA Div I athletes for 15 years. Rant over.

On a strength and conditioning related note... Why is it so much harder to do 10 knuckle push-ups on the hardwood floor than 30 on my palms on my carpeted living room floor?

[Judodad_karateson]

This is interesting stuff. We do about 5-10 minutes of static stretching with the kids at the beginning of every class. The only dynamic stretch we do is leg swings and we only do five on each leg after we've done our static stretching. We've literally been doing the same warmup for at least the past 20 years (at least since I started when I was .

Adults are expected to come a few minutes early and warm up themselves before class starts, though we usually start with some slow, easy kata to warm up before going harder.

Next time I'm in charge of class, I'll have to try to add some more dynamic stretching into our warm up.

Yeah, that is what I'm use too. Guess we are just old school, need to get with it, haha.

I have been stretching with my son before heading to class. I may just start waiting till after class for a cool down or something.

So where does Yoga fit into all of this? Static or Dynamic? Or a little of both?

[DWx]

JR 137 is spot on with the advice on static vs dynamic stretching. There have been a number of studies which show that you see improved strength and speed when stretching dynamically pre-workout rather than statically and that prior to training mobility of joints is more important than sitting down and stretching muscles.

https://breakingmuscle.com/mobility-recovery/passive-stretching-can-make-you-weaker

For improving flexibility you really need to be doing extra work at home anyway. 5-10 minutes in class a couple of days a week is not enough to have a meaningful impact. Really you should try for 30 mins everyday or every other day if possible.

[JR 137]

This is interesting stuff. We do about 5-10 minutes of static stretching with the kids at the beginning of every class. The only dynamic stretch we do is leg swings and we only do five on each leg after we've done our static stretching. We've literally been doing the same warmup for at least the past 20 years (at least since I started when I was .

Adults are expected to come a few minutes early and warm up themselves before class starts, though we usually start with some slow, easy kata to warm up before going harder.

Next time I'm in charge of class, I'll have to try to add some more dynamic stretching into our warm up.

Yeah, that is what I'm use too. Guess we are just old school, need to get with it, haha.

I have been stretching with my son before heading to class. I may just start waiting till after class for a cool down or something.

So where does Yoga fit into all of this? Static or Dynamic? Or a little of both?

Not to get too technical, but yoga is active stretching. More on the dynamic side than static side, but not really either one per se. Yoga has pretty much unquestionable flexibility benefits, but it's a different ball of wax all together.

Yoga (there are so many forms) has movement into stretching and is not cardio intensive like sports are. People generally don't go through a yoga class-type workout before competition or intense practice, so I doubt it has been studied as to its effectiveness on athletic performance as a warm-up.

Not that I've seen it (or even looked for it), but I'm sure someone somewhere has studied yoga's effect on performance when done as supplemental training. I'd be willing to bet it was positive.

I'd advise if you're interested in getting as flexible as possible to warm-up sufficiently (should be sweating), do dynamic stretching, after practice do some static stretching during cool-down, and do yoga workouts a few times a week completely seperate from MA workouts.

Static stretching has its benefits. But they're not very beneficial (or at least the most efficient way) when done prior to intense activity.

[wayneshin]

There's a lot of research out there on this subject matter but very little of it relates to Martial arts. The studies relate to reduced force generation of the muscle being stretched. This is regarding the agonist muscles(ie those generating the force). Because we need increased mobility our flexibility focuses on the antagonist muscles ( those resisting the movement eg hamstring in a front kick). There is also anecdotal evidence to suggest that static Stretching pre exercise can increase risk of injury by weakening the antagonist muscle.)

Most now seem to follow the pathway of using dynamic stretching in the warm up (some of the more enlightened also use myofascial release pre warm up ). Static stretching is left till after class.

However some leading S & C coaches are now suggesting Static stretching should be done cold to gain increases in mobility. My head hurts just trying to keep up.