What is your student turnover rate?

[Luther unleashed]

Just thought this was a cool idea to see how everybody does, and I'm curious how we'll I'm doing as a new program according to other programs.

OverAll I lose a few students each month. Typically the ones I lose where in their first month and it seemed it wasn't for them. I retain a good 90% of student base though. I've grown each month as follows..

• 1st month - 7 students

• 2nd month - 14 students

• 3rd month - 20 students

• 4th month - 20 students

• 5th month - 21 students

• 6th month - 31 students

• 7th month - 26 students

• 8th month - 33 students

• 9th month - 37 students

• 10th month - 31 students

• 11th month - 34 students

•12th month - 34 students

•13th month - 32 students

These are total student numbers, I have lost about 2 to 3 each month and gained the same or in most cases, more then lost. How does your school perform and what do you guys think about my numbers? I'm in a rec center so that should be taken into concideration when judging total numbers as an average school may have more students. The previous program that taught at my location maintained 33 total students pretty consistently and was there 9 years before closing shop!

Edited January 20, 2016 by Luther unleashed

[Lupin1]

We're also at a rec center and we try to keep it at about 20 students. We usually start beginners groups of about 5 students twice a year (depending on how many openings we have). How many of those stick with it can vary. We've had beginners groups where they were all gone within a few months and we've had groups where they're all still going two years later. Usually out of the 5 or 6 we start, about two make it to yellow belt (about 6-8 months).

If they can get through to yellow belt, they usually stay for an average of two years. We also tend to lose them slowly after yellow belt. Rather than just up and stopping all together (like beginners do), they'll drop down to once a week, then they'll show up randomly once every few weeks or make a "false return" where they start showing up every class for a month or so and then they stop.

[Harlan]

Average? 10 years. But we only see a new student every 5 years or so.

Depending on your POV, we are either a stunning failure or quiet success.

[Nidan Melbourne]

At my dojo our biggest turnover rate is at white + yellow belt ranks (9th Kyu + 8th Kyu) as the kids may not find it fun or the parents think it is too dangerous and their kid is going to get hurt.

They only reasons our students leave is because of either: they are moving away, too busy of a workload or they aren't enjoying it anymore.

But that doesn't happen often.

[Luther unleashed]

We're also at a rec center and we try to keep it at about 20 students. We usually start beginners groups of about 5 students twice a year (depending on how many openings we have). How many of those stick with it can vary. We've had beginners groups where they were all gone within a few months and we've had groups where they're all still going two years later. Usually out of the 5 or 6 we start, about two make it to yellow belt (about 6-8 months).

If they can get through to yellow belt, they usually stay for an average of two years. We also tend to lose them slowly after yellow belt. Rather than just up and stopping all together (like beginners do), they'll drop down to once a week, then they'll show up randomly once every few weeks or make a "false return" where they start showing up every class for a month or so and then they stop.

20 students? So do you guys offer multiple classes or is that 20 in one class. I just added another class, I'm at 4. So, 20 is an average of only 5 per class and really not enough make me feel I'm doing some real damage in the teaching department.

Also, you know I think I can agree that if they make it to yellow belt (first or second testing for is) that they stay longer. I'm hoping to hit about 60 total. I can handle about 15 per class, more then that and I need more help then I have.

[Lupin1]

20 students? So do you guys offer multiple classes or is that 20 in one class. I just added another class, I'm at 4. So, 20 is an average of only 5 per class and really not enough make me feel I'm doing some real damage in the teaching department.

Also, you know I think I can agree that if they make it to yellow belt (first or second testing for is) that they stay longer. I'm hoping to hit about 60 total. I can handle about 15 per class, more then that and I need more help then I have.

Just 20 period. We only have one class for kids that meets twice a week. We have a waiting list several pages long, but we only have three instructors and between work and health reasons, none of them are available for more classes. I'm just a 1st Kyu right now and I've been working with the beginners' group since I was a 4th Kyu. Hopefully in another year or so, I'll be able to help expand our program.

Right now we're talking about giving the beginner's group their own class to let them focus a little more (it's distracting having them try to learn the basics while the rest of the kids are sparring or something on the other side of the room). We're also considering a separate class for younger kids as right now we don't take below 3rd grade and a lot of parents of 1st and 2nd graders are asking about it. My thought is with these groups feeding into the regular kids class, we'll also eventually have to split that class into an intermediate and advanced to keep numbers down.

That's my dream for the program, at least, and our head kids' instructor also wants to expand but just doesn't have the means right now. I don't know if it'll ever happen. We've been at just the one kids class and one adult class for 30 years now. We'll see, I guess.

[Luther unleashed]

20 students? So do you guys offer multiple classes or is that 20 in one class. I just added another class, I'm at 4. So, 20 is an average of only 5 per class and really not enough make me feel I'm doing some real damage in the teaching department.

Also, you know I think I can agree that if they make it to yellow belt (first or second testing for is) that they stay longer. I'm hoping to hit about 60 total. I can handle about 15 per class, more then that and I need more help then I have.

Just 20 period. We only have one class for kids that meets twice a week. We have a waiting list several pages long, but we only have three instructors and between work and health reasons, none of them are available for more classes. I'm just a 1st Kyu right now and I've been working with the beginners' group since I was a 4th Kyu. Hopefully in another year or so, I'll be able to help expand our program.

Right now we're talking about giving the beginner's group their own class to let them focus a little more (it's distracting having them try to learn the basics while the rest of the kids are sparring or something on the other side of the room). We're also considering a separate class for younger kids as right now we don't take below 3rd grade and a lot of parents of 1st and 2nd graders are asking about it. My thought is with these groups feeding into the regular kids class, we'll also eventually have to split that class into an intermediate and advanced to keep numbers down.

That's my dream for the program, at least, and our head kids' instructor also wants to expand but just doesn't have the means right now. I don't know if it'll ever happen. We've been at just the one kids class and one adult class for 30 years now. We'll see, I guess.

We'll 20 in one class is plenty! I have four classes but as you suggested wanting to have a beginners and an advanced/intermediate class, I do that as we'll. I have a "tiny tigers" class for ages 4-5 yrs old. I have "lil Ninjas" for ages 6-7 years old. Then the karate program ages 8 to adult, split into 2 classes based on rank. Once they achieve 6th rank(kyu/gup) they move to the advanced class. Not only does it help with numbers to split them but I can better manage the class material and kick it up a notch. So basically I'm saying that this works very well for me, so if you get there I hope you find the same success!

I am the only instructor that can run class or testings front to back. My wife is a 1st dan and is a great assistant and helps relief some pressure, I also have 2 of my kids assist as Jr assistant instructors. They can handle groups of 4 pretty well. Most of the time I feel anyways, that you only need one solid instructor to be the rock of the program, as long as you get some help, at least depending on your numbers of course.

I hope you get where you want, I love to see people get where I got only 6 months ago, which is realizing my dream. May I ask the style and where your located?

[Luther unleashed]

Still growing lately, exciting. Opening a new location this Monday, and at our highest numbers yet, 37 students at just our first location. If I think about what we could be doing right idk but I'm certainly enjoying it more and I'm more comfortable, I opened 9 months ago and although I taught for about a year prior this is my first time on my own in my own program. Fun stuff.

[sensei8]

It took me some time, on my own, to no longer care about the turnover ratio because turnover, I finally learnt, was just a normal part of the MA, or for that fact, any other type of business.

I use to track it closely on my P&L each month, but, I grew out of that in time. It's normal for new schools of the MA to track, and it's an important part because to grow, one has to understand how to grow, and to know how to grow, is to track models that underline areas that need attention; either fix it, or don't fix it!!

Ours MA industry is akin to a roller coaster; up and down, this way and that way, spinning thusly here and there, and going in loops concerning the totality of ones student body.

Don't fret the turnover ratios...JUST TEACH!! The turnover ratio will take care of itself if you teach. I'm not saying don't look over it, but don't dwell on it because, it'll start, trust me in what I'm about to say, interfering with you providing quality instructions one way or another.

Luther unleashed...Your numbers, for having just started, are quite impressive. So I ask this of everyone...How many students do you need? Being honest with yourself will help answer my question. If you want a small student body, then act like it. If you want a medium sized student body, then act like it, and of course, if you want a large student body, then act like it.

Some how and some way, I must've acted like I wanted a large student body, but I didn't do anything special, other than teach. When I sold my dojo in Tulsa, OK, I had over 300 student body, and this went up and down through the many years of trials and tribulations with the economic downturn we all experienced not long ago. Yes, I was satisfied to having a large student body, but I didn't set out to generate that size of a student body...I JUST TAUGHT...I did what came natural to me, and what I loved to do!

I watched the ratio act like it was in a rushing mad storm in the middle of the ocean...rocking and rolling, until I threw up. But, finally I said to myself..."It will take care of itself...NOW TEACH, DAMN IT...TEACH!!" That's when the numbers slowly grew and grew and grew. I was amazed myself but then again, I wasn't that surprised because I CAN TEACH!! I've been blessed my entire MA career whether it was in California or in Texas or in Oklahoma, I was blessed to always generate a large student body, a respectable student body.

Besides, winners never quit, and quitters never win...or something like that. Students will leave, that's natural, it's part of the business...can't be stopped, and can't be helped. JUST TEACH!! MA is difficult, and many can't deal with all that's required to be an effective MAist! Beginning student turnover is the biggest of the ratios...MA is too hard, then there's competing with sports competitions, like little league, and everything else that kids and adults become involved in during their daily lives...because...they're living and surviving and whatever else.

Your dojo door swings two ways, in and out, and this revolving door of student retention will be that monster that'll eat you up and spit you out if you let it...DON'T LET IT!! If your teaching quality stuff, then students will come, and those that leave for whatever reason(s) will be replaced by new students.

Cherish those that remain on the floor! Cherish those that have left the floor! Each have their own reasons as to why; respect THAT!!

Now, GO TEACH YOUR HEART OUT, and one more time...the student turnover will take care of itself!!

[Luther unleashed]

Thanks sensei8, you know I really do get what your saying and I aprèciate the time you took to say it. I am not stressing it as much as it might seem, but the reason I made the thread was to understand potentially how I site amongs other new teachers, old teachers and so on. Not to brag, or to beat myself up, but to simply measure as my curiosity gets the best of me... How good am I really doing, and most curious I am to understand "what is normal" or common.

I do understand that turnover is a common thing in martial arts and very much for the reasons you have specified. I saw it when I just trained prior to teaching, I noticed it then. The thing is, I suppose I care more about how many don't leave, the. How many I have. It's impossible to please everybody for sure, but that's hard for me to accept.

As for how many I want? Let me be honest with you! I want to make a living, and I charge a bit less then half of the going rate of stand alone studios. I actually start teaching at my second location tomorrow, and we are still at a similar price. What it means for me is that because I have made a strong run at offering martial arts for less then many competitors, and targeted lower income families/areas, I need more students to benefit financially. I hate to think about numbers this way but to make a living I must think about these things. At my first location, the previous program had 33 for some time, my personal goal was 40, so I'm right there near my. Dry realistic goal. At my second location I hope to accomplish the same. Realistically I can handle as many as about 15 a class without issues, that's 4 classes so the ultimate goal with the help and facilities I have now is about 60 at each school, I guess we will see if I'm really that good of a teacher huh?

I like what you are getting at, I have been telling my wife it's like that movie about baseball, I can't remember the name as Iv never. Den a baseball person but there's this constant phrase "if you build it, they will come"! I believe in this,similarly to what your saying. And BTW your numbers are the impressive ones, certainly not mine. Take care.