Do some schools test too leniently?

[Judodad_karateson]

Anyone seen

?

WHile it still have his unqiue, demented breed of humor, it seems more poignant that any of his over videos, almost out of character. What do you think? Is their a grain of truth to it?

[sensei8]

YES!! Those type of schools, sad to say, are becoming more common than not. Label them how one must, I won't, but what they teach, more often than not, is false security to their whole student body. Rank is prevalent, while knowledge isn't!! Show up for 3 months, and you're promoted without the immediate concerns for effectiveness. Floppy and sloppy, in these type of schools, get you promoted, just as long as their current in their dues and the like.

IMHO!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

It is better to question the purpose of a test or grading than discuss whether or not it is challenging enough. Does the test recognize a level of skill? Is it meant to reward improvement to a certain standard? Or is it merely a reward for time or financial commitment to the school, organization or instructor?

[bushido_man96]

Sure, some schools do. With so many out there now, there are going to be some that the quality isn't as good as others.

[Wado Heretic]

I would have to argue that it depends on the stated goals and aims of the school, and how reflective of their stated goals their practices actually are. If you take a Tae Kwon Do school which emphasises Olympic sport TKD, then to a practitioner of self-defence focused Tae Kwon Do, despite being the same art; their standards might seem lax or lenient. Conversely they might think he is lenient because of a lesser focus on competition technique and conditioning.

The danger we experience in martial arts is when people who are teaching a combat sport advertise themselves as teaching martial arts, or conversely people who are teaching a cultural tradition fail to advertise and acknowledge as such. If you are disingenuous with what you are actually teaching, then inevitably your standards will be lenient or lax, as there is a disconnection between your stated goals and actual practices. In that sense there are many schools which are too lenient with their grading.

[JR 137]

There's a lot of wiggle room in individual dojos as well. The 2 dojos I've been a part of graded on individual growth. Should a 50 something person be held to the same physical standards as a person in their early 20s? What about a person with a physical impairment/disability?

I had a classmate who was a sandan. For a sandan, she had horrible technique. She knew all the movements and could demonstrate them. But there was no real, I don't know, oomph behind anything.

This person had been studying for 30 something years. She always gave it her all, never backed down from a challenge emotionally or physically (although it was ugly), and was truly a role model. Never took a break from training. In sports, she'd be referred to as a clubhouse guy; a guy you have to keep around due to being an invaluable asset in the sense of commarderie, but won't see the field.

If you walked in randomly and watched her, you'd shake your head and question why she's the rank she is. If you knew all she put into her training, you'd have no problem with her rank.

Rank is a personal thing. Not everyone is capable of being Bruce Lee. But a dedicated person who's showing all out effort and growth has a place in the dojo and promoting.

Yes, there has to be a physical standard, but do they have to be the same for everyone? Does someone who you don't feel is worthy of the same rank as you degrade all you've done and therefore your rank?

When push comes to shove, my belt color won't do anything for me. My skills (or lack thereof) will do all the talking. Doesn't matter that I'm currently a blue belt (8th kyu in my current system) and I was a shodan previously. Doesn't matter if I can beat down half of the black belts in the dojo, and get beaten down by the other half. I make my rank, it doesn't make me.

To paraphrase Sensei8, the proof will be on the floor when the day comes where I have to utilize my skills for real. Hopefully I'm more skilled than my opponent, who most likely wouldn't have even obtained a white belt.

[sensei8]

There's a lot of wiggle room in individual dojos as well. The 2 dojos I've been a part of graded on individual growth. Should a 50 something person be held to the same physical standards as a person in their early 20s? What about a person with a physical impairment/disability?

I had a classmate who was a sandan. For a sandan, she had horrible technique. She knew all the movements and could demonstrate them. But there was no real, I don't know, oomph behind anything.

This person had been studying for 30 something years. She always gave it her all, never backed down from a challenge emotionally or physically (although it was ugly), and was truly a role model. Never took a break from training. In sports, she'd be referred to as a clubhouse guy; a guy you have to keep around due to being an invaluable asset in the sense of commarderie, but won't see the field.

If you walked in randomly and watched her, you'd shake your head and question why she's the rank she is. If you knew all she put into her training, you'd have no problem with her rank.

Rank is a personal thing. Not everyone is capable of being Bruce Lee. But a dedicated person who's showing all out effort and growth has a place in the dojo and promoting.

Yes, there has to be a physical standard, but do they have to be the same for everyone? Does someone who you don't feel is worthy of the same rank as you degrade all you've done and therefore your rank?

When push comes to shove, my belt color won't do anything for me. My skills (or lack thereof) will do all the talking. Doesn't matter that I'm currently a blue belt (8th kyu in my current system) and I was a shodan previously. Doesn't matter if I can beat down half of the black belts in the dojo, and get beaten down by the other half. I make my rank, it doesn't make me.

To paraphrase Sensei8, the proof will be on the floor when the day comes where I have to utilize my skills for real. Hopefully I'm more skilled than my opponent, who most likely wouldn't have even obtained a white belt.

Solid post!!

[Lupin1]

I agree with those saying it depends on the reason for rank at your school. Some school are very strict with it and to them, it's an indication of skill-- no more, no less.

For other schools, like mine, the rules are more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules. Basically, the only rank my instructor very rarely compromises on is Shodan (and even that is flexible for older practitioners or those with disabilities). Every other rank is just a tool to keep people motivated on their way to Shodan.

If my instructor really did what he wanted, we'd drop to just white and black belt (maybe brown). Everything else is treated very flexibly and given out for different reasons at different times for different individuals to give them what they need to progress in their individual journeys. They have to be at least semi-proficient in the requirements for the belt, but beyond that we might require a much different level of skill in those requirements for different students depending on what they need to become the best karateka they personally can be.

[Luther unleashed]

There's a lot of wiggle room in individual dojos as well. The 2 dojos I've been a part of graded on individual growth. Should a 50 something person be held to the same physical standards as a person in their early 20s? What about a person with a physical impairment/disability?

I had a classmate who was a sandan. For a sandan, she had horrible technique. She knew all the movements and could demonstrate them. But there was no real, I don't know, oomph behind anything.

This person had been studying for 30 something years. She always gave it her all, never backed down from a challenge emotionally or physically (although it was ugly), and was truly a role model. Never took a break from training. In sports, she'd be referred to as a clubhouse guy; a guy you have to keep around due to being an invaluable asset in the sense of commarderie, but won't see the field.

If you walked in randomly and watched her, you'd shake your head and question why she's the rank she is. If you knew all she put into her training, you'd have no problem with her rank.

Rank is a personal thing. Not everyone is capable of being Bruce Lee. But a dedicated person who's showing all out effort and growth has a place in the dojo and promoting.

Yes, there has to be a physical standard, but do they have to be the same for everyone? Does someone who you don't feel is worthy of the same rank as you degrade all you've done and therefore your rank?

When push comes to shove, my belt color won't do anything for me. My skills (or lack thereof) will do all the talking. Doesn't matter that I'm currently a blue belt (8th kyu in my current system) and I was a shodan previously. Doesn't matter if I can beat down half of the black belts in the dojo, and get beaten down by the other half. I make my rank, it doesn't make me.

To paraphrase Sensei8, the proof will be on the floor when the day comes where I have to utilize my skills for real. Hopefully I'm more skilled than my opponent, who most likely wouldn't have even obtained a white belt.

This is a ridiculously great post here! Put very well, and before I taught I thought "how is that person a red belt, I understand now it isn't just a physical thing always. I love how you said "RANK IS A PERSONAL THING", I could not tell you how much I agree.

[Bulltahr]

There's a lot of wiggle room in individual dojos as well. The 2 dojos I've been a part of graded on individual growth. Should a 50 something person be held to the same physical standards as a person in their early 20s? What about a person with a physical impairment/disability?

I had a classmate who was a sandan. For a sandan, she had horrible technique. She knew all the movements and could demonstrate them. But there was no real, I don't know, oomph behind anything.

This person had been studying for 30 something years. She always gave it her all, never backed down from a challenge emotionally or physically (although it was ugly), and was truly a role model. Never took a break from training. In sports, she'd be referred to as a clubhouse guy; a guy you have to keep around due to being an invaluable asset in the sense of commarderie, but won't see the field.

If you walked in randomly and watched her, you'd shake your head and question why she's the rank she is. If you knew all she put into her training, you'd have no problem with her rank.

Rank is a personal thing. Not everyone is capable of being Bruce Lee. But a dedicated person who's showing all out effort and growth has a place in the dojo and promoting.

Yes, there has to be a physical standard, but do they have to be the same for everyone? Does someone who you don't feel is worthy of the same rank as you degrade all you've done and therefore your rank?

When push comes to shove, my belt color won't do anything for me. My skills (or lack thereof) will do all the talking. Doesn't matter that I'm currently a blue belt (8th kyu in my current system) and I was a shodan previously. Doesn't matter if I can beat down half of the black belts in the dojo, and get beaten down by the other half. I make my rank, it doesn't make me.

To paraphrase Sensei8, the proof will be on the floor when the day comes where I have to utilize my skills for real. Hopefully I'm more skilled than my opponent, who most likely wouldn't have even obtained a white belt.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, but what a great post!! MA should be for everyone shouldn't it? I'm sure we all agree.