What is a mc dojo??

[wayneshin]

There are plenty of commercial school out there delivering quality karate. Just as there are non profit enterprises teaching rubbish.

Ultimately I think it is about making decisions about curriculum, gradings and the like for purely commercial reasons.

[Wado Heretic]

As I said in my post; a very clumsy term that is often best avoided.

The term originated in circles whose concepts of what Martial Arts should be resolved around the notion of "aliveness", and were heavily influenced by free-fighting, NHB, and MMA. Therefore, the early use of the term was very much critical of any system which did not match this standard of "aliveness.

As you can imagine, such an unyielding definition some what comes apart when one encounters the traditional martial arts, and certain combat sports. If we take Kata for example; forms are often considered "dead" training, with even application advocates receiving criticism for the round about manner in which they have arrived at their alive training. However, many of us who study the traditional arts will utilise forms in our training, alongside other "alive" methods, and most of us realise the inherent nature of kata; that although they are a map for our training we should not neglect hojo undo or kumite. Should we considered McDojo for a cultural practice that governs our approach? Many might argue yes, many would argue no.

As mentioned prior you also have activities such as Kendo, and we could also mention kobujutsu in the same ilk; it is not going to meet the classic definition of aliveness simply by virtue of the activity in question.

The more nuanced version that many of us involved in broader Martial arts circles is thus that of unethical business models. What has been advertised, is disingenuous with what is in fact provided.

Seemingly high-costs, and for-profit models, are not for sure signs of a McDojo. There are for-profit schools, whose prices are reflective of the quality of their services, and of their facilities. However; the difference between a for-profit school and a McDojo is the advertisement, and business model:

1. McDojo make money through hidden costs, not by asking reasonable and competitive rates reflective of the quality of their service.

2. What they in fact do will also be disingenuous with what they have advertised; their advertisement will usually be a catch-all approach, but what they teach will be formulaic and often only address one aspect of what was advertised. They do not discuss their actual focus, and this basic approach is an exercise in cost cutting, and time saving, rather than specialisation to enhance the benefits of training. A good sign of this is a good looking dojo; a dojo that is well presented, but when you look around the equipment is some what lacking or non-existent. Cosmetics are cheaper than equipment, and the illusion of a well-presented dojo can easily trick the untrained eye.

[guird]

I'm told it refers to martal arts school which is only interested in making money. This doesn't neccessarily mean they don't train well, but it is very often the case.

http://www.karatebyjesse.com/93-signs-of-a-mcdojo/

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's fair for those schools. If they train well, why should they be shamed for charging a premuim or showing interest in moeny? A good instructor is a trade just like plumber or electrican.

I'm just repeating what I've been told the usage is. I do think it's better applied to schools that provide a low-quality products.

question: should the label apply to schools which provide good traijing, but also have irritating business practices? (e.g. long contracts)

[Judodad_karateson]

question: should the label apply to schools which provide good traijing, but also have irritating business practices? (e.g. long contracts)

I don't beleive so. The quality of the training is whats it a McDojo. The term comes from McDonalds, and while greed may be an issue for the company, the main problem most have with McDonalds is the poor quality of their food. Money is a factor, but if a school has irritating (even arguably predatory) billing practices, that doesn't mean their training is lacking. A school shouldn't be judged by how it keeps the lights on and pays the instructors, but on the type of training they provide.

[bushido_man96]

question: should the label apply to schools which provide good traijing, but also have irritating business practices? (e.g. long contracts)

I don't beleive so. The quality of the training is whats it a McDojo. The term comes from McDonalds, and while greed may be an issue for the company, the main problem most have with McDonalds is the poor quality of their food. Money is a factor, but if a school has irritating (even arguably predatory) billing practices, that doesn't mean their training is lacking. A school shouldn't be judged by how it keeps the lights on and pays the instructors, but on the type of training they provide.

Well said. The price shouldn't be the only factor that is considered mcdojo-ish.

[JR 137]

High price isn't a McDojo guarantee. What if a guy like Bas Rutten had a dojo that was twice as expensive as everyone else, personally taught, all other instructors were personally approved by him, and the training was top notch?

McDojo means you're getting a circus act passed off as martial arts. There are some MAs that aren't self defense orientated - fencing and various sword fighting arts (unless you always carry one, but that's another topic) - yet they don't say fencing is great self defense.

A McDojo will tell you your kata moves (without any bunkai other than "block" and "punch") and start-stop point fighting will make you untouchable. They'll tell you they're too deadly to practice with any force other than a tap at most.

Doesn't matter if it's expensive or free. McDojo and expensive are pretty much synonymous, but definitely not one in the same.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Perhaps the best definition depends on whom is concerned. Judging by the very discussion going on this forum, there really is no clear-cut definition. There may actually be several different types of what could be called Mcdojo.

The only element common to all mcdojo seems to be summed up in two words: deception and exploitation.

[ShoriKid]

I think the main requirement, for me, is a business set up to extract maximum profits for minimum effort. This is usual done through the offering of a low quality product.

High quality instruction is worth every penny you pay. For a long time the ma community has held the idea that instructors should be destitute, teaching for the love of the art. We need to shake that idea, kill it with fire, and at the same time weed of low quality instructors. Not new, or inexperienced ones who just need times to season. The rexquan-do needs to vanish from the face of the earth.

[Spartacus Maximus]

It is unfair to for one man to deny another his right to earn a living or even profit from providing knowledge or skills that are deemed valuable. The idea that a martial arts teacher should not seek payment or even profit is based in fiction or a distorted false sense of humility.

A brief review of recorded accounts of martial arts history proves that some kind of payment was expected. The martial arts masters of the past were far from being wandering beggars teaching for nothing. Even centuries ago in China, Okinawa and Japan martial arts masters were paid in some form to teach. Some of them whose names are still remembered today earned quite a confortable living.

[liger]

It is unfair to for one man to deny another his right to earn a living or even profit from providing knowledge or skills that are deemed valuable. The idea that a martial arts teacher should not seek payment or even profit is based in fiction or a distorted false sense of humility.

A brief review of recorded accounts of martial arts history proves that some kind of payment was expected. The martial arts masters of the past were far from being wandering beggars teaching for nothing. Even centuries ago in China, Okinawa and Japan martial arts masters were paid in some form to teach. Some of them whose names are still remembered today earned quite a confortable living.

I agree.

This is why its quality of the teaching not just price.

This would be why I said on all my points before that they may be a sign yet not all the time.