What is a mc dojo??

[JohnASE]

Obviously, there is no clear cut definition. McDojo means different things to different people. That's why I don't like its use. It's a slur with no real meaning. Also, it gets close to the "my martial arts is better than yours" argument.

To me, most of the things mentioned in this thread could be signs of a McDojo, but are separate from the definition of a McDojo. In my opinion, Judodad_karateson is closest. The essence of a McDojo is the lack of nutritional value in the menu, metaphorically speaking.

Sometimes, that'll mean promoting undeserving students. Sometimes, that'll mean flash over substance. Sometimes, that'll mean programs focused on retention more than instruction, including contracts and higher numbers of belts to keep students motivated.

I've spoken with many instructors, students and parents associated with schools that would be considered McDojos, and most of love what they do and value the teachings, just like people at non-McDojos. Maybe their students wouldn't do as well in a tournament, or more importantly, on the streets, but they learn to set and achieve goals, they learn discipline, they experience camaraderie, they learn confidence, and they have fun, just like people at non-McDojos.

By the way, before the term McDojo caught on, schools like this were called "black belt factories". The definition was a little different, but the sneer was about the same.

[JR 137]

Obviously, there is no clear cut definition. McDojo means different things to different people. That's why I don't like its use. It's a slur with no real meaning. Also, it gets close to the "my martial arts is better than yours" argument.

To me, most of the things mentioned in this thread could be signs of a McDojo, but are separate from the definition of a McDojo. In my opinion, Judodad_karateson is closest. The essence of a McDojo is the lack of nutritional value in the menu, metaphorically speaking.

Sometimes, that'll mean promoting undeserving students. Sometimes, that'll mean flash over substance. Sometimes, that'll mean programs focused on retention more than instruction, including contracts and higher numbers of belts to keep students motivated.

I've spoken with many instructors, students and parents associated with schools that would be considered McDojos, and most of love what they do and value the teachings, just like people at non-McDojos. Maybe their students wouldn't do as well in a tournament, or more importantly, on the streets, but they learn to set and achieve goals, they learn discipline, they experience camaraderie, they learn confidence, and they have fun, just like people at non-McDojos.

By the way, before the term McDojo caught on, schools like this were called "black belt factories". The definition was a little different, but the sneer was about the same.

I agree with your post. Nothing wrong with it, so long as the people there are happy and well-informed. But then again, most people aren't well-informed about a lot of things, myself included. Just because they're not my cup of tea doesn't mean they're all worthless. Everyone has the right to do as they wish.

I wonder though... Do most students at McDojos know its a McDojo and are happy anyway, or do they think they're at a true dojo? If they're oblivious to it, I wonder if the dojo I train at is a McDojo and ignorance is bliss 😂

[liger]

Obviously, there is no clear cut definition. McDojo means different things to different people. That's why I don't like its use. It's a slur with no real meaning. Also, it gets close to the "my martial arts is better than yours" argument.

To me, most of the things mentioned in this thread could be signs of a McDojo, but are separate from the definition of a McDojo. In my opinion, Judodad_karateson is closest. The essence of a McDojo is the lack of nutritional value in the menu, metaphorically speaking.

Sometimes, that'll mean promoting undeserving students. Sometimes, that'll mean flash over substance. Sometimes, that'll mean programs focused on retention more than instruction, including contracts and higher numbers of belts to keep students motivated.

I've spoken with many instructors, students and parents associated with schools that would be considered McDojos, and most of love what they do and value the teachings, just like people at non-McDojos. Maybe their students wouldn't do as well in a tournament, or more importantly, on the streets, but they learn to set and achieve goals, they learn discipline, they experience camaraderie, they learn confidence, and they have fun, just like people at non-McDojos.

By the way, before the term McDojo caught on, schools like this were called "black belt factories". The definition was a little different, but the sneer was about the same.

I agree with your post. Nothing wrong with it, so long as the people there are happy and well-informed. But then again, most people aren't well-informed about a lot of things, myself included. Just because they're not my cup of tea doesn't mean they're all worthless. Everyone has the right to do as they wish.

I wonder though... Do most students at McDojos know its a McDojo and are happy anyway, or do they think they're at a true dojo? If they're oblivious to it, I wonder if the dojo I train at is a McDojo and ignorance is bliss 😂

Its seems to me that the best answer for that last question seems to be YES!

Its probably a little of both and/or one or the other.

[JR 137]

Obviously, there is no clear cut definition. McDojo means different things to different people. That's why I don't like its use. It's a slur with no real meaning. Also, it gets close to the "my martial arts is better than yours" argument.

To me, most of the things mentioned in this thread could be signs of a McDojo, but are separate from the definition of a McDojo. In my opinion, Judodad_karateson is closest. The essence of a McDojo is the lack of nutritional value in the menu, metaphorically speaking.

Sometimes, that'll mean promoting undeserving students. Sometimes, that'll mean flash over substance. Sometimes, that'll mean programs focused on retention more than instruction, including contracts and higher numbers of belts to keep students motivated.

I've spoken with many instructors, students and parents associated with schools that would be considered McDojos, and most of love what they do and value the teachings, just like people at non-McDojos. Maybe their students wouldn't do as well in a tournament, or more importantly, on the streets, but they learn to set and achieve goals, they learn discipline, they experience camaraderie, they learn confidence, and they have fun, just like people at non-McDojos.

By the way, before the term McDojo caught on, schools like this were called "black belt factories". The definition was a little different, but the sneer was about the same.

I agree with your post. Nothing wrong with it, so long as the people there are happy and well-informed. But then again, most people aren't well-informed about a lot of things, myself included. Just because they're not my cup of tea doesn't mean they're all worthless. Everyone has the right to do as they wish.

I wonder though... Do most students at McDojos know its a McDojo and are happy anyway, or do they think they're at a true dojo? If they're oblivious to it, I wonder if the dojo I train at is a McDojo and ignorance is bliss 😂

Its seems to me that the best answer for that last question seems to be YES!

Its probably a little of both and/or one or the other.

Regarding the last post in my plethora of quoted posts in a single quoted post, truer words have never been spoken.

[Spartacus Maximus]

The truth is that the majority of people who practise martial arts are doing it for reasons other than self-defense. As long as they enjoy going to a dojo, most people will continue without ever questioning anything they are being taught.

If all martial arts schools trained and taught for self-defense only, there would be a lot less of them and even less students. Martial arts as originally intended is not easy. It is not a hobby or a game. It is repetitive, demanding and exhausting. This type of training is definitely not for everyone and few people have the perseverance and dedication to put themselves through it.

[Spodo Komodo]

I wonder though... Do most students at McDojos know its a McDojo and are happy anyway, or do they think they're at a true dojo? If they're oblivious to it, I wonder if the dojo I train at is a McDojo and ignorance is bliss 😂

I trained at a McDojo but I only twigged when I had invested enough time and effort to make it difficult to stop. The training was fun, not very hard or rigorous and I learned a whole bucketload of techniques in a rather slapdash way. I could pretend to be a fairly advanced grade and my rate of advancement was only limited by my wallet so I didn't enquire too deeply.

I now train at a dojo that is very definitely not a McDojo, the training is good but hard and we don't mess about at all. Back when I started I may not have continued training had I not been in a McDojo, at the time I just wanted a bit of a workout after work and something that looked a bit more macho than a spin class or yogalates. However, I grew to love karate, the history, the mechanics and the community and can now appreciate training in a proper dojo and getting things right rather than getting things done.

[CredoTe]

...

By the way, before the term McDojo caught on, schools like this were called "black belt factories". The definition was a little different, but the sneer was about the same.

This is the term I was familiar with for many years. I agree that the connotations between McDojo and black belt factory (sometimes shortened to belt factory) are different. For a lot of folks, though, I think they're similar enough that they're used interchangeably.

I like to think of it as one of those relational graphs, almost like a Venn diagram. They both definitely overlap, but there is certainly room for discussion on how much they overlap. For instance, let's consider this relationship: all McDojos are belt factories, but not all belt factories are McDojos. Could this be true? I don't know of any McDojo in my area that doesn't more or less give away rank (pay money, show up, get next rank regardless of skill progression), and I know of a handful of small dojos that are fairly serious about the art, but give away rank in the same manner (could be considered belt factories, but do so because they have a small student pool and have to make ends meet). However, these are only anecdotal evidence and not necessarily representative of the whole.

To connect all this to the OP, I think it goes back to what many have already mentioned: there are certain elements of commercial dojos that folks see as "McDojo", but that doesn't necessarily make these dojos "bad". There are certain elements of commercial dojos and small/private dojos, alike, that may be seen as "belt factory", but that doesn't necessarily make these dojos "bad". I think where the line is drawn is whether a "McDojo" or "belt factory" passes off any flash, fluff, or sport/tournament stuff as real self-defense. Again, as many said, it's a quality issue. If a dojo that focuses on fun, fitness, and sport makes it clear that's what they focus on, then no qualms. The quality issue applies to those that focus on fun, fitness, sport, flash, fluff, etc and then say everything they do is practical and works on the street...

[ozm8]

Apparently my school is a mc dojo. I train at GKR but I've been yellow belt for about 1-2 years now and there are no kids with black belts. I didn't have the money to buy a gi so they even donated one for me.

[Wasp]

So why then would you consider your school to be a McDojo?!

[Nabil Kazama]

Apparently my school is a mc dojo. I train at GKR but I've been yellow belt for about 1-2 years now and there are no kids with black belts. I didn't have the money to buy a gi so they even donated one for me.

Yes, yes it is. Your sparring is non contact, making contact is ESSENTIAL when sparring.

You need to learn to take hits as well as deliver. But if you're happy training with them, then fair play to you. If not, go to another dojo and learn properly.