Unworthy or undesirable students

[Spartacus Maximus]

Before martial arts were taught to masses and commercialized, masters would evaluate and test a prospective student's character. Those judged to have negative attitude were always turned away to prevent teaching a belligerent student likely to harm himself or others with the unreasonable use of his skills.

Although refusing to teach someone may not always be a viable action nowadays, there are good reasons why an instructor might decide to do so. Has anyone ever turned away a potential student because of a bad impression of character? Has anyone thrown out a student for the same reasons?

[Wado Heretic]

The short answer is yes; I shan't go into great detail but in the two broad themes are as follows:

1. I have turned away adult students who have been seeking the "ultimate" martial art, or are just fad enthusiasts with regards to combat sports. As I teach full-contact karate, and incorporate grappling, I had a lot of people come to me because of the fame of Lyoto Machida. I turned them away as they weren't interested in Karate, but in fighting. I have also turned out some adult students who have never been able to grasp the need to respect the dojo floor, and others on it. I do not demand people be monks, but I expect discipline when training.

2. I no longer teach children, but when I did I used to have a very strict rule on a minimum age of 7, and 12-14 before I would allow them anywhere near a brown belt. Being children, I kept discipline light so long as they were learning, and trying. I have had cause to ask two parents to no longer bring their children as the energy needed to involve them in the lesson detracted from teaching anyone else, and they were also inclined to subtle displays of bullying, which they believed I did not notice. The only other occasion was a child with learning difficulties, and although one on one he was a very adept student, he struggled in the class situation and essentially attending was just stressing him beyond his ability to cope. It was a case of being cruel to be kind.

Ultimately, everyone needs a different stick, and needs to be measured differently, some people mold themselves into karateka over time where as others just come and go through the movements. If a person has a quirk, but works in the dojo, that is them being who they are. However, if a person cannot leave their problems at the door, and impose them on others that is when I do not have the patience to allow a person to stay.

[chiliphil1]

I agree with you on this. One used to have to be accepted by the teacher. Now with so many "for profit" dojos out there anyone who can pay the fee can line right up.

I am not bashing these schools, the reality is that unless you own the space or are teaching out of your home you will have bills to pay and the only way to pay them is with bodies, you can't have 3-4 good students and keep the lights on, you have to have 50 so so students whom you work with to improve.

I think the only ones who could be selective these days are the ones who, again give lessons from home or are wealthy and don't need to profit. As long as they cover the bills it would be sufficient for them.

[chiliphil1]

The short answer is yes; I shan't go into great detail but in the two broad themes are as follows:

1. I have turned away adult students who have been seeking the "ultimate" martial art, or are just fad enthusiasts with regards to combat sports. As I teach full-contact karate, and incorporate grappling, I had a lot of people come to me because of the fame of Lyoto Machida. I turned them away as they weren't interested in Karate, but in fighting. I have also turned out some adult students who have never been able to grasp the need to respect the dojo floor, and others on it. I do not demand people be monks, but I expect discipline when training.

2. I no longer teach children, but when I did I used to have a very strict rule on a minimum age of 7, and 12-14 before I would allow them anywhere near a brown belt. Being children, I kept discipline light so long as they were learning, and trying. I have had cause to ask two parents to no longer bring their children as the energy needed to involve them in the lesson detracted from teaching anyone else, and they were also inclined to subtle displays of bullying, which they believed I did not notice. The only other occasion was a child with learning difficulties, and although one on one he was a very adept student, he struggled in the class situation and essentially attending was just stressing him beyond his ability to cope. It was a case of being cruel to be kind.

Ultimately, everyone needs a different stick, and needs to be measured differently, some people mold themselves into karateka over time where as others just come and go through the movements. If a person has a quirk, but works in the dojo, that is them being who they are. However, if a person cannot leave their problems at the door, and impose them on others that is when I do not have the patience to allow a person to stay.

This is an excellent post!

[Spartacus Maximus]

The inspiration for asking the initial question about instructors being selective is the many stories from a bygone age in the history of martial arts. Most familiar are the accounts from China, Japan and Okinawa. It still goes on to a lesser degree but students are not evaluated as strictly as they might have been before.

As expected, instructors who are selective are usually those who can afford to be so. These types of instructors have a sense to responsibility for ensuring that the skills they pass on will not be used in ways that might cause them shame or grief.

Although commercial dojo instructors must maintain numbers to continue teaching, some degree of selectivity must be feasible. Making a list may be helpful in keeping a certain standard.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I am not that picky but the same is said for my sensei. When students/parents are filling in a questionnaire and one of the questions asked is the reason as to why your wanting to train.

I have gone through many of these forms for sensei when we have had intros. and have subequently found 9/10 of students who have a bad attitude or want to learn the 'ultimate' martial art have actually quit or not signed up after the 2nd intro lesson because they realised that it isn't suited to them or that they need to have a positive behaviour and discipline or even because the journey is a long one.

[wayneshin]

There are always students who take up more of our time and energy. Children with ADHD, autism etc. Often they are the ones who need us most.

[Nidan Melbourne]

There are always students who take up more of our time and energy. Children with ADHD, autism etc. Often they are the ones who need us most.

I teach a student privately and she has aspergers, and is very different to teaching someone without it.

The main thing I have to do is show her exactly what each step is involved and give accurate information etc.

But she is very passionate about karate and wants to learn more.

[bushido_man96]

I've been lucky in that I haven't had to do this. The head instructor of our DT club does his best to vet each potential member before teaching someone a skill set that is meant to help and protect others, not harm those we try to protect.

[Wado Heretic]

There are always students who take up more of our time and energy. Children with ADHD, autism etc. Often they are the ones who need us most.

True enough; and in the particular case of the student with the learning difficulties I did offer private lessons for the fee of class lessons, so long as they kept the time flexible. However, it is important to offer the behavioural intervention needed, not what we ourselves are inclined to. If the Dojo is not the suitable place for someone, then I shall not lie to them about it. I am about teaching Karate, and sharing something I myself enjoy; not messiah complexes.

I have stopped teaching in commercial spaces, and essentially teach out of my garden; and must admit, I have become much more particular about who I will teach because of it. However, I also teach for free, excepting material charges which must be covered occasionally; when we want to rent sparring space, belts, replacing equipment et cetera.