Lack of Control

[Shotokannon]

Hey guys,

What's everyone's opinion on this?

I was in a lesson a few days ago where we were free-sparring, and of course it hurts a little bit (as expected) but everybody uses some degree of control, and expects control to be used on them.

There's always this ONE guy who whenever he fights, he doesn't use ANY control at all (he's popped my nose a couple of times and nearly knocked a few of my teeth out) so I've been trying to avoid training with him not because I'm scared but because I don't want to be put in hospital and have time off work.

Now, I'm not a very big guy (5'5) and not particularly toned yet, this other guy's bigger and stronger but because this guy insists on using no control, I'm considering not using control on him either.

What about you, what do you do when you have someone in the Dojo who doesn't control?

[guird]

Hey guys,

What's everyone's opinion on this?

I was in a lesson a few days ago where we were free-sparring, and of course it hurts a little bit (as expected) but everybody uses some degree of control, and expects control to be used on them.

There's always this ONE guy who whenever he fights, he doesn't use ANY control at all (he's popped my nose a couple of times and nearly knocked a few of my teeth out) so I've been trying to avoid training with him not because I'm scared but because I don't want to be put in hospital and have time off work.

Now, I'm not a very big guy (5'5) and not particularly toned yet, this other guy's bigger and stronger but because this guy insists on using no control, I'm considering not using control on him either.

What about you, what do you do when you have someone in the Dojo who doesn't control?

Have you tried just asking him to go lighter?

There are a few guys who immediately go very hard in my kickboxing school. Since I'm pretty good at taking a hit I often just roll with it, but when I do ask them to hit with less power they oblige.

About nearly having your teeth knocked out, do you guys wear mouthguards when you spar? If it is a problem that extends beyond just this sparring partner, you should ask your sensei what he thinks about using them .

[Spartacus Maximus]

Control can and must be learned like all other parts of martial arts. Students with no control do not understand the purpose of kumite. They must be told firmly and reminded often that kumite is not a competition match or cage fight and the goal is most definitely not to "win" or "beat" the other student.

Injuries can a will happen, but they must never be the result of intention. Kumite is nothing more than a drill where the goal is to train applied techniques and strategy. If after all this a student is still fails to excercise control, the instructor or an advanced student with good control should train with that student.

When training with someone who is more skilled and has good control, a student with no control will be faced with that weakness. Once made obvious, the lack of control can be changed.

Lack of control cannot be changed by attempting to counter it with the same thing. This type of reasoning is not only stupid, but irresponsible and immature

[Nidan Melbourne]

Ask him to go lighter, if not go to your instructor.

As much as control is a learnt behavior, it should be one that the person is aware of. And he should be aware that he is injuring other students.

Has your instructor tried teaching him and telling him to be more controlled?

We have 1 student like what you describe where he has no control at all. I hate training with the guy because every time we do partner work he goes to hard, doesn't control his technique or anything. It is extremely frustrating.

[sensei8]

For me, that is the bottom line: Ask that person to go lighter, and if that person won't, then go speak with your instructor ASAP. Your wellbeing is paramount, in that, don't whine about it.

[Wastelander]

You should absolutely talk with this person, and ask them to go lighter. I will admit that I have been the guy hitting too hard in sparring, but only because I didn't know it was too hard for the person I was sparring. I try my best to judge how hard they want to be hit, based on how they hit me, but I don't always get it right. Of course, there are also accidents, but those can be forgiven. A quick "can we go lighter?" can work wonders.

[Nidan Melbourne]

You should absolutely talk with this person, and ask them to go lighter. I will admit that I have been the guy hitting too hard in sparring, but only because I didn't know it was too hard for the person I was sparring. I try my best to judge how hard they want to be hit, based on how they hit me, but I don't always get it right. Of course, there are also accidents, but those can be forgiven. A quick "can we go lighter?" can work wonders.

But at least it was brought to your attention and you most likely thought to yourself "oh bugger" and have tried to change.

Accidents happen but shouldn't be a common occurrence. In Kumite it does happen where something happens and you get them in the wrong place.

[chiliphil1]

I saw a case of this just the other day. There was a black belt test and the students were sparring. There was this one guy who had very quick hands and he would just light up the other students. There were even a couple of times where the guy had to stop and ask his opponent if he was OK.

I think that at the level this guy was control should be as easy as standing there but he just didn't have it. Granted the other BB candidates should have either been able to block or to keep him away but he just kept on getting them.

I was surprised that he kept getting in though, no one used a kick to stop him.. It was like boxing.. Off topic.. I know..

When I was coming up I had someone like this in my class, he was a lower rank than me but super fast and super intense. He could get in on just about anyone, including me. I got socked a few times from this guy but I never asked him to back off, I figured it just kinda came with it and if you could match him you were doing something! We were kicking hand targets one night and this same guy was kicking as hard as he possibly could and kept missing by an inch or two to the back and of course that's where my arm was. I walked away with a many a welt that day.

[Montana]

Over the years I've had some of these students, and this is what I do.

First of all I warn them and explain why we need to have control. If this fails to resolve the issue, the student then spars with me...or one of my top students, who will gladly match power for power with him.

He either learns and starts practicing control, or could face possibly being expelled from the class.

[jaypo]

I see that sometimes from the lower belts and younger students. They're so eager to "land something" on a black belt that they throw out the entire premise of kumite.

We have a young lady in her teens that was just awarded her junior black belt a few months ago, and she HAS control, but she doesn't use it. In partner drills, she makes hard contact, and in sparring, she does the same. So when I had to spar with her for her test, I used a little more force on my blocks (not to hurt her, but to let her feel it a little). I also kept jamming her techniques, and I threw in a few takedowns in the session. The reason I did this was to let her know that by going without full control, you open yourself up to things. By throwing hard techniques without full control, it leads to harder blocks, and more pain on you if they don't land. By not being in full control of your position, you leave yourself open to someone getting inside on you. And by not throwing controlled strikes, you leave yourself open to being taken down. All 3 of these things proved accurate in that session.