Advanced and beginner classes?

[RAM18]

Hey,

My school has always had 2 skills days both of which have accommodated 10 Kyu up to my Sensei at 5th Dan and everything in between.

There is talk recently of splitting the class in to advanced class for 2nd / 1st kyu and Dan's and beginners 10 - 3 kyu. Even maybe on separate days.

I'm not sure what to think about it in many respects. On one hand focused training is a great idea but i'm worried us Dan grades loose some identity with the other students?

Does anyone else have this split? How do you find it? Are there training days where you all get together as a whole?

[Wasp]

We always train at the same time with all the different belts. Sometimes we split after warming up into lower / higher rank groups to work on specifics (for upcoming exams for example), other times we stay together with the whole group and just mix when sparring.

[Nidan Melbourne]

At my dojo for our junior students we have 3 classes; beginner, intermediate & advanced. And our Adults 2 classes; Beginner & Advanced.

But our Adults Classes everyone attends the beginner classes when they can because it is awesome for kihon. But on Wednesdays we have a beginner class for everyone but the advanced class is only for 2nd & 1st Kyus and above can attend.

We have very few dan graded students but even fewer do the advanced training which is a bad sign. But that is usually because of various bits and bobs that they have outside of class.

Personally I find that it is enjoyable to train together, but then again having that advanced class is preferable because we then can focus on the stuff that us advanced people need to work on.

[Spodo Komodo]

I think it is good for the higher grades to mix with the lower grades, it reminds everyone of where they came from and where they are aiming for. Having said that on training days you want to do some quality training at your own level so I prefer days that are split, maybe a couple of hours all in together for warmup and basics then off into two groups (8th-4th kyu, 3rd kyu upwards) for more specific training. If there is a shortage of instructors for the coloured belt class then rotate the higher grades in and out of there, teaching can be training as well.

[Wastelander]

For kids, we have Beginner (first 3 kyu ranks) and Intermediate (next 3 kyu ranks) classes, although most of the Intermediate students still attend the Beginner classes. For teens and adults, we have "All Rank" classes and Advanced (brown and black belt) classes. Truth be told, I have never been to an Advanced class, but my Sensei doesn't think that's a problem, since I work on my higher level kata on my own (which we don't always get to in All Rank classes) and during drills and kata bunkai, he gives more information to the more advanced students.

[sensei8]

Hey,

My school has always had 2 skills days both of which have accommodated 10 Kyu up to my Sensei at 5th Dan and everything in between.

There is talk recently of splitting the class in to advanced class for 2nd / 1st kyu and Dan's and beginners 10 - 3 kyu. Even maybe on separate days.

I'm not sure what to think about it in many respects. On one hand focused training is a great idea but i'm worried us Dan grades loose some identity with the other students?

 

Does anyone else have this split? How do you find it? Are there training days where you all get together as a whole?

To the bold type above...

I doubt that you'll lose ANY identity with the other students; they know who the Dan ranked students are. They're more informed than one might think!!

I believe that every school of the MA has the split. Some more, than others!! In Shindokan, we're divided three way; beginners, intermediates, and advanced; in both karate-do and kobudo. When I first opened my dojo in 1977, I had ONE: Beginners. Then, as the students advanced over the years, I then had TWO: Beginners and intermediates. Then, as the students advanced over the years, again, I then had THREE: Beginners and intermediates and advanced.

I've dabbled in trying to incorporate the two model; beginners and advanced. But, I was indirectly undermining the importance of BEING an intermediate student; not one to enjoy.

OPEN FLOOR!! That's an invaluable commodity that no school can be without. At first, I only did open floor on Saturday afternoons, but as my student body increased, as well as the demand for more, I have 3 open floors throughout the week. No matter the rank, all are invited to open floor, and all ranks meander together, and I don't allow individual groups to form, because, imho, they can deride the open floor. The open floor is for ALL to exchange and help one another.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sensei8

[Rateh]

We greatly split up our age & rank groups. We feel students get the most benefit from it. For example, our youth "high ranks" tend to be a little more skilled than our teens "high ranks", due to our teens having only one class division and our youth having three.

We group as follows:

Tiny Tigers (3-4 years): "all ranks" class

Little Dragons (5-7 years): "low ranks" class and "middle+" class (middle+ is all students who are middle ranks, high ranks, and elite ranks) each rank group is 3 belt levels

Youth (8-12 years): "low ranks" class, "middle ranks" class, and "high ranks" class - each class is divided into 3 belt levels

Teens (13-17 years): "all ranks" class

Adults (18+ years): "all ranks" class

We hold 7 classes per day, and each group has 4 classes to choose from each week

We also hold a "black belts" class once a week for all youth, teen, and adult black belts. Black belts MUST attend the black belt class if they wish to advance.

All students who earn a black belt before 15 years old are considered a "poom" belt, which basically means junior black belt. Their belt is black on the top half and red on the bottom.

Even though our class times are not particularly long, because they are very focused on what the students of that rank need the time is sufficient.

If we had more time in the day I would extend the classes by 5-15 minutes.

We also hold separate classes for sparring on Fridays. Forms clinics once a month on Saturday. And seminars once or twice a month. Their are rank and age requirements to attend these classes.

We also hold "leadership" classes to teach students basic leadership skills, as well as how to teach. Students who participate in this program can eventually certify as an instructor.

I can't imagine having all of these classes together. The class would have to be quite long to accommodate all that needs to be accomplished. And it would be less tailored to the needs of the particulate students. This is of course just must opinion based on my own personal experiences.

[Spodo Komodo]

I doubt that you'll lose ANY identity with the other students; they know who the Dan ranked students are. They're more informed than one might think!! I don't allow "clicks" to form.

I think there is a difference between being visible to the newer students and being classmates with them. There is as much to learn from working with the lower kyus as they learn from crossing fists with the dan grades. To me this is the difference between the military and the academic models. The military model emphasises the need for detachment in order to command, the higher grades work with each other and ranks tend to stick together throughout their dojo life. The academic model emphasises the need for experience to be shared as widely as possible so the higher ranks are encouraged to work alongside the lower ranks in order to gain humility and perspective as much as to pass on their insights. With the military model cliques are inevitable, the whole system is set up so that they form naturally. With the academic model their formation can be problematic, and they have to be broken up as much as possible. Training together is great for breaking up cliques as you prove.

[Melau]

While split beginners / advanced is often done, I've had somewhat of a different approach in my classes.

I have 2 classes, not divided on kyu grades necessarily but more on working / training ethics. Most of the time higher kyu grades have more 'serious' working ethic because of experience, hence that there are more higher kyu grades in the second class. But for 'beginners' (low kyu) that train serious and work hard, I'll put them in the second group.

The first group are mostly the younger age, those that have trouble focussing for long periods of time, etc. It makes it easier to 'design' a work-out when the mentality of the group is more uniform.

For me, grouping based on workin / training mentality works well.

[pers]

In my club the first 12 years of my training there was beginner and advance classes, I attended beginner classes which was up to fourth kyu and after I got my brown third kyu I was able to attend the advance class.

I carried doing both classes for 10 years before they were merged into one.

It was very valuable to do the basic class even when I was a Dan grade. You can never have enough of basic class, it is great conditioning and for perfecting technique.

I eventually got in better condition than many of my senior grades because of this, as a new brown belt I found myself way behind their ability and finding myself constantly losing or panicking running away from them but after few years of double classes tables were turned.