1 explanation of the Chinte "Hop"

[sensei8]

I had heard that the hops were added to ensure that you ended at the same spot were you began...I don't buy that either!!

What is your explanation for this move Bob? What did your Soke and Dai Soke teach?

(I have to say, watching this kata for the first time, this is a very weird movement!)

I don't have a better explanation, only assumptions!!

I believe that the hops were added because of having an obsessive need for uniformity: to reach the start of the Embusen/performance line!! Surely, as intelligent as one is, a way to reach the same start/end of the Embusen could've been achieved other than adding three bunny hops.

Soke and Dai-Soke offered up their interpretations of the three bunny hops "could" be used to escape wrist holds and from freeing oneself from a full-nelson hold!! I just don't buy that either!! For me, it's like saying I can escape a wrist hold and a full-nelson by sneezing, and those movements of a sneeze would be effective.

I also don't believe that any kata is gender specific. This is one explanation that's been floating around for as long as I can remember. Chinte is believed to be a kata for females...I doubt that! Why? It would be like saying, this technique and that technique is for females, OR males, only!! Why are women mostly found executing Chinte in tournaments? I've no idea! Possibly because a male karateka doesn't want to be seen doing a kata that has not just one bunny hop, but three. It attacks the male ego, I suppose.

[DaveB]

Chinte and Chinto are different kata. Some think they are from the same family but it's just a theory. Shotokan renamed Chinto, Gankaku.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that the JKA added the hips to return the karateka to the start. They probably hop rather than step because it's a higher rank kata and hops provide an extra challenge as far as balance.

It's not our idea of a sensible use of kata but apparently that was how the JKA did things.

There is a more modern version in a Shorin ryu school, Kodokan I think, their methods look more functional and they don't hop, they step.

[bushido_man96]

There is a more modern version in a Shorin ryu school, Kodokan I think, their methods look more functional and they don't hop, they step.

Are you sure on this? Kodokan was the name of Jigoro Kano's Judo school.

[Kusotare]

There is a more modern version in a Shorin ryu school, Kodokan I think, their methods look more functional and they don't hop, they step.

Are you sure on this? Kodokan was the name of Jigoro Kano's Judo school.

Kodokan is actually quite a common name for a number of Japanese dojo.

It simply means place of learning or place for old ways!

K

[DWx]

I had heard that the hops were added to ensure that you ended at the same spot were you began...I don't buy that either!!

What is your explanation for this move Bob? What did your Soke and Dai Soke teach?

(I have to say, watching this kata for the first time, this is a very weird movement!)

I don't have a better explanation, only assumptions!!

I believe that the hops were added because of having an obsessive need for uniformity: to reach the start of the Embusen/performance line!! Surely, as intelligent as one is, a way to reach the same start/end of the Embusen could've been achieved other than adding three bunny hops.

Soke and Dai-Soke offered up their interpretations of the three bunny hops "could" be used to escape wrist holds and from freeing oneself from a full-nelson hold!! I just don't buy that either!! For me, it's like saying I can escape a wrist hold and a full-nelson by sneezing, and those movements of a sneeze would be effective.

I also don't believe that any kata is gender specific. This is one explanation that's been floating around for as long as I can remember. Chinte is believed to be a kata for females...I doubt that! Why? It would be like saying, this technique and that technique is for females, OR males, only!! Why are women mostly found executing Chinte in tournaments? I've no idea! Possibly because a male karateka doesn't want to be seen doing a kata that has not just one bunny hop, but three. It attacks the male ego, I suppose.

Do you think it was a case of "my teacher hopped so I must hop"? And no-one know how it got started. To the ignorant (i.e. me!) if it was to get back to the start point it seems bizarre not have just made it a more purposeful step or single jump rather than bunny hops back..

[DaveB]

That should have read "kyudokan".

I surmised that since both them and Shotokan have the retreat at the end, albeit in different forms, that it must have some practical application.

[bushido_man96]

There is a more modern version in a Shorin ryu school, Kodokan I think, their methods look more functional and they don't hop, they step.

Are you sure on this? Kodokan was the name of Jigoro Kano's Judo school.

Kodokan is actually quite a common name for a number of Japanese dojo.

It simply means place of learning or place for old ways!

K

I did not know that, thanks for explaining it. I had just always associated Kodokan with Judo.

That should have read "kyudokan".

And thanks for this clarification, as well!

[bushido_man96]

I had heard that the hops were added to ensure that you ended at the same spot were you began...I don't buy that either!!

What is your explanation for this move Bob? What did your Soke and Dai Soke teach?

(I have to say, watching this kata for the first time, this is a very weird movement!)

I don't have a better explanation, only assumptions!!

I believe that the hops were added because of having an obsessive need for uniformity: to reach the start of the Embusen/performance line!! Surely, as intelligent as one is, a way to reach the same start/end of the Embusen could've been achieved other than adding three bunny hops.

Soke and Dai-Soke offered up their interpretations of the three bunny hops "could" be used to escape wrist holds and from freeing oneself from a full-nelson hold!! I just don't buy that either!! For me, it's like saying I can escape a wrist hold and a full-nelson by sneezing, and those movements of a sneeze would be effective.

I also don't believe that any kata is gender specific. This is one explanation that's been floating around for as long as I can remember. Chinte is believed to be a kata for females...I doubt that! Why? It would be like saying, this technique and that technique is for females, OR males, only!! Why are women mostly found executing Chinte in tournaments? I've no idea! Possibly because a male karateka doesn't want to be seen doing a kata that has not just one bunny hop, but three. It attacks the male ego, I suppose.

Do you think it was a case of "my teacher hopped so I must hop"? And no-one know how it got started. To the ignorant (i.e. me!) if it was to get back to the start point it seems bizarre not have just made it a more purposeful step or single jump rather than bunny hops back..

I'm of kind of the same feeling as you, Danielle. If anything, why not add some meaningful techniques, like stepping backwards in back stances and doing knife hand guarding blocks, or directing back kicks or side kicks to the rear while retreating?

[sensei8]

I had heard that the hops were added to ensure that you ended at the same spot were you began...I don't buy that either!!

What is your explanation for this move Bob? What did your Soke and Dai Soke teach?

(I have to say, watching this kata for the first time, this is a very weird movement!)

I don't have a better explanation, only assumptions!!

I believe that the hops were added because of having an obsessive need for uniformity: to reach the start of the Embusen/performance line!! Surely, as intelligent as one is, a way to reach the same start/end of the Embusen could've been achieved other than adding three bunny hops.

Soke and Dai-Soke offered up their interpretations of the three bunny hops "could" be used to escape wrist holds and from freeing oneself from a full-nelson hold!! I just don't buy that either!! For me, it's like saying I can escape a wrist hold and a full-nelson by sneezing, and those movements of a sneeze would be effective.

I also don't believe that any kata is gender specific. This is one explanation that's been floating around for as long as I can remember. Chinte is believed to be a kata for females...I doubt that! Why? It would be like saying, this technique and that technique is for females, OR males, only!! Why are women mostly found executing Chinte in tournaments? I've no idea! Possibly because a male karateka doesn't want to be seen doing a kata that has not just one bunny hop, but three. It attacks the male ego, I suppose.

Do you think it was a case of "my teacher hopped so I must hop"? And no-one know how it got started. To the ignorant (i.e. me!) if it was to get back to the start point it seems bizarre not have just made it a more purposeful step or single jump rather than bunny hops back..

Yeah, I do think that, respectfully, of course!! I think it's in the kata, and practitioners DO exactly what they're taught, and if the 3 bunny hops are in your curriculum, you have to execute exactly that without any ambiguity, especially during a testing cycle.

I double triple dare anyone to not do the bunny hops during a testing cycle! It might set a new precedence!! If the MA is suppose to evolve, and I believe that it is a must, then the three bunny hops is one of the areas that I'd change!!

[skullsplitter]

We don't do the hops. Our instructor learned the kata with the hops when she was young, but changed it when she started teaching. She felt the hops were too feminine.

After the last punch at the end we chamber both fists at the waist, step out with a wide double punch, spinning jump with a shuto (like enpi), then step back and shuto.