Thoughts please

[sensei8]

I'm just glad I don't do Ballet.

I've never been able to master the French language! lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_ballet

Yeah, French, for me, like Spanish, is Greek to me; way beyond my capabilities. Now, my daughter, Kyrstal, speaks French effortlessly, and when I listen, I look like a deer caught in the headlights!! So, I'm with you Kusotare!!

I suppose that it would be great if all students could learn the Japanese terms, but to some, it's not a possibility. Therefore, I don't hold that against them, especially if they've tried. Students don't come to learn a new language, but how to be effective!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Unless one is training in Japan or under a Japanese sensei, I would think Japanese terminolgy is a matter of choice on the part of whomever is in charge. With very few exceptions what one hears is a very distorted rendering of Japanese tinted with the accents of the main language spoken.

This sounds even stranger to me since I have learned to speak the language but I cannot blame anyone for not knowing correct Japanese. Correct karate is the focus of training, not learning a complicated and exotic foreign language.

Anything beyond familiarizing with Japanese terms is not necessary for the average karate student. Counting to 10, names of blocks, kicks and punches is quite enough.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Unless one is training in Japan or under a Japanese sensei, I would think Japanese terminolgy is a matter of choice on the part of whomever is in charge. With very few exceptions what one hears is a very distorted rendering of Japanese tinted with the accents of the main language spoken.

This sounds even stranger to me since I have learned to speak the language but I cannot blame anyone for not knowing correct Japanese. Correct karate is the focus of training, not learning a complicated and exotic foreign language.

Anything beyond familiarizing with Japanese terms is not necessary for the average karate student. Counting to 10, names of blocks, kicks and punches is quite enough.

What we require our students to know in japanese is:

Blocks

Strikes (punches, knees, uchis, teishos etc)

Kicks

Stances

Numbers (up to 100)

General bowing procedures

Titles

[sensei8]

If you were the CI, and you announced to your students that you were no longer going to teach, using the Japanese terminologies...

How do you think they'd respond? Favorably or disenchanted? A sigh of relief or a sigh of dismay?

After all, this is NOT Japan, unless your dojo is actually in Japan, in which I retract my question all together.

Using the Japanese terms makes the Karate being trained in, no matter the style, more original....YES or NO?

I do it, the Japanese terms, because I don't know any better; it's been so much grained in me, that to not to, seems alien and foreign to me. Fellow American practitioners have accused me of showing off, with the Japanese terms and functional fluency, and I'm not because I don't do it to show off, I do it because of whom were my two biggest influences...Soke and Dai-Soke.

I've tried to NOT use the terms, and I can, but the weirdest thing is that it is unnatural for me, and some how and some way, the normal flow of the Japanese terms reappear without me forcing it.

What's one to do??

[cathal]

In our dojo we require the students to know the Japanese terms by the time they earn 8th Kyu (Yellow Belt). Until that time we make sure to speak both English and Japanese:

Blocks

Strikes

Kicks

Stances

Numbers (up to 100)

General bowing procedures

Titles

The Dojo Kun

[sensei8]

Does anybody think that it puts an unnecessary burden upon our students to require them to learn a foreign language??

[cathal]

I don't think so. They aren't learning a full language, merely terminology. It sinks in over time and no one is pushy or mean about it.

[JohnASE]

Does anybody think that it puts an unnecessary burden upon our students to require them to learn a foreign language??

The question isn't whether or not teaching Japanese terms is necessary, because it's not, but whether it's worth the trouble. To answer that, you have to decide how beneficial it is and how hard it is.

What do you gain? In my opinion, it's one of the things that separates most martial arts training from things like boxing and wrestling. You're teaching more than a collection of techniques and strategy. You're introducing students to a new philosophy and culture. Learning Japanese terms helps them connect to the material and to feel more a part of the dojo. It enriches the experience.

How hard is it to learn? It's harder for some than others, but that's true about anything, from a reverse punch to a complex kata to whatever. If a student has trouble with something, you work them through it. If that doesn't work, maybe you make allowances, but you don't drop it from the curriculum.

And if you do decide not to teach Japanese terms, how far do you take it? Do you not make them learn the name of the style? Do you not teach the names of the kata? Do you not teach your students what a dojo is or a gi or a sensei? I'm fine with a kid in a martial arts studio, wearing a uniform, learning Orange Belt Form #1 of the American Family Self Defense System from Mister Kevin, but I doubt what's being taught would be a very traditional, Japanese style.

[sensei8]

Does anybody think that it puts an unnecessary burden upon our students to require them to learn a foreign language??

The question isn't whether or not teaching Japanese terms is necessary, because it's not, but whether it's worth the trouble. To answer that, you have to decide how beneficial it is and how hard it is.

What do you gain? In my opinion, it's one of the things that separates most martial arts training from things like boxing and wrestling. You're teaching more than a collection of techniques and strategy. You're introducing students to a new philosophy and culture. Learning Japanese terms helps them connect to the material and to feel more a part of the dojo. It enriches the experience.

How hard is it to learn? It's harder for some than others, but that's true about anything, from a reverse punch to a complex kata to whatever. If a student has trouble with something, you work them through it. If that doesn't work, maybe you make allowances, but you don't drop it from the curriculum.

And if you do decide not to teach Japanese terms, how far do you take it? Do you not make them learn the name of the style? Do you not teach the names of the kata? Do you not teach your students what a dojo is or a gi or a sensei? I'm fine with a kid in a martial arts studio, wearing a uniform, learning Orange Belt Form #1 of the American Family Self Defense System from Mister Kevin, but I doubt what's being taught would be a very traditional, Japanese style.

Solid post!!

[Zaine]

Does anybody think that it puts an unnecessary burden upon our students to require them to learn a foreign language??

The question isn't whether or not teaching Japanese terms is necessary, because it's not, but whether it's worth the trouble. To answer that, you have to decide how beneficial it is and how hard it is.

What do you gain? In my opinion, it's one of the things that separates most martial arts training from things like boxing and wrestling. You're teaching more than a collection of techniques and strategy. You're introducing students to a new philosophy and culture. Learning Japanese terms helps them connect to the material and to feel more a part of the dojo. It enriches the experience.

How hard is it to learn? It's harder for some than others, but that's true about anything, from a reverse punch to a complex kata to whatever. If a student has trouble with something, you work them through it. If that doesn't work, maybe you make allowances, but you don't drop it from the curriculum.

And if you do decide not to teach Japanese terms, how far do you take it? Do you not make them learn the name of the style? Do you not teach the names of the kata? Do you not teach your students what a dojo is or a gi or a sensei? I'm fine with a kid in a martial arts studio, wearing a uniform, learning Orange Belt Form #1 of the American Family Self Defense System from Mister Kevin, but I doubt what's being taught would be a very traditional, Japanese style.

Great post!

When I started Shorin Ryu, my teacher only counted in Japanese. We knew the correct names of the Kata and weapons, but other than that my teacher taught in English (until he started teaching in Hebrew, long story). His reasoning was that he wanted to strip the Eastern mysticism out of what he taught and that was important to him, and he was a good teacher and so I didn't care, and I still don't, I think my MA education was good and I don't feel that I am any less of a Martial Artist for not knowing the terms in Japanese. That being said, when I started using this forum I often had to look up terms, and that was frustrating. I still have to look up terms from time to time, but I'm just less frustrated by it now. So a good reason to teach the Japanese in class is so that your students can engage in the discourse with students who are taught the terminology without having to stop the conversation to get definitions. I also don't think that it is a burden to teach it. You aren't asking the students to learn another language, just a handful of terms that are related to the art that you are teaching. Currently I'm going through the process of learning Italian (Friulian, really, but close enough) terms for wma and it doesn't feel burdensome.