Thoughts please

[Nidan Melbourne]

Yesterday during our advanced juniors class I was taking our 1st Kyu's through basics because strong basics is the base of all martial arts. Because if you don't have strong (aka good) basics then the rest won't be as effective.

As a general requirement i'm sure all schools require their students to be at least knowledgeable in the japanese terminology for all techniques they are required to know.

I was taking them through Kihon especially since the 7 of them either had 2 or 3 'tags' on their belt so they are close to getting the 5 tags required to grade for shodan-ho.

And I informed them before starting that no technique or combination that I get them to do or have them come up with will be in japanese, so no english terminology can be used. I did this because it will make them think and also that there is the expectation that they know their stuff. Especially when it comes to their black belt grading we do the same because they should have been listening and learning whilst learning the syllabus. Especially if they travel overseas where they don't speak english or a language that your fluent in then they will use japanese terminology to make things even easier for you to train and learn from someone else. As karate Japanese is the native language of karate (even further you can say Okinawan is the true tongue of karate).

As my general rule when teaching and using the japanese terms, i look to see if they demonstrate the technique i want to see. If they get it right or no one knows I will demonstrate and tell them it in english. By doing this I like seeing if they learn and have actually payed attention to what we have taught them.

Now during the class I did what i just mentioned, and started by telling them the combination i wanted in japanese and asked the 1 to tell me what it is (they got it right). Now 1 student was not paying attention at all, i got their attention and asked them what the combination was and they said "I don't know" when i asked if they were watching they responded with "no" and the same for when asked if they were listening.

For one combination I asked her to give me a technique (any one that she can think of) if she can't think of the japanese term for it that she can say it in english. Now I got no response, when i reminded her that it can be in english because i could tell she didn't know the terms in japanese and tell me it in english.

at the end of the class and my training class started, the parent pulled me over to the side and she was angry because her was upset especially after all the years she has trained at the school. She was asking me what during the class caused her to be so upset. I calmly told her that there is the expectation that a student of her rank that she should know all the terms required to grade. Her response was that "sensei has never mentioned the japanese terms before and why is it now that she has to know this and that no english would be used" so i calmly told her that there is a requirement that you know all the terms and that we have always used more japanese terms in the advanced class and used english terms on techniques that they are learning to make it easier on them. Once I finished explaining it to her and few other things, I did apologize for causing distress but the parent said that I didn't need to apologize because that makes sense and that her daughter should be asking questions when she doesn't know something and considering that she pays $85 per month she feels that there has to be a benefit to it all.

When I told her that her daughter can't neglect the mental side to learning terms, numbers etc and not just learning the "meat head" side of karate or martial arts. she understood what her daughter is doing and that she (the mum) apologized for her reaction without knowing the other side of the story.

What do you think of what happened?

Here is our expectation levels of knowledge about terminology for our students in their respective classes:

'Beginners': Know the English Terms, and we start introducing the japanese terms slowly into their vocabulary. When they Graduate to the next class they should know at least 25% of the Japanese terms.

'Intermediate': Know the English Terms for their syllabus but also know the japanese terms for those techniques. By the time they are ready to graduate to the 'Advanced' Class they should know 75% of the Japanese Terms

'Advanced': Purple + Blue Belts should know 75-90% of the japanese terms. Whilst 2nd Kyu and above must know 100% of the japanese terms.

Throughout the 'beginner' and 'intermediate' classes we say it in english and will tell them what it is in japanese. So when it gets near the end of the class we see if they remember what the japanese term was with a technique. We repeat the technique with both japanese and english names multiple times so you remember it. We in that way build it up over time that they remember all the terminology.

All our students when they grade for any dan grading (including shodan-ho) we require them to sit a written exam where it tests their knowledge. Usually those who pass the written exam have either payed attention to retain the information or they have gone out of their way to learn the required information.

[Spartacus Maximus]

I see the use of Japanese language terms as a choice by the main instructor. It should be based in the context of training and dojo environment. As long as techniques are taught correctly and effectively, the language used to identify them is irrelevant. What matters is that the students understand the instructor and that the instructor can communicate and demonstrate.

Having said this, the best argument for keeping Japanese is that it facilitates exchanges and discussion by having a basic common terminology. Re-naming everything in another language would certainly be confusing and quite difficult because even within the same language there would be variations.

Knowledge of Japanese terminology should be on a need to know basis. Instructors, prospective instructors and anyone who expects to have any kind of exchange with other karate people from outside their circle should know enough to facilitate communication.

Personally, I have had numerous exchanges through karate with people from different nations with whom I shared my interest. In my case the environment made it necessary and practical to know Japanese terminology. Later my interest in karate brought me to source, where again by vital necessity I had to learn the language itself. It remains useful even now because it is the only one my instructor speaks.

Not everyone is inclined to learn foreign terminology. It can even make the physical movements more confusing for some people especially those who learn best by listening(auditory learners). Encouraging students to learn Japanese terms is fine but making it mandatory may be counter-productive.

[Lupin1]

Beyond the very basics (kiyotsuke, rei, dojo, gi, hajime), we don't teach any Japanese at all, though in the black belt test guide there is a section with just a few (maybe 20) Japanese terms and words it's good to know.

As a teacher, though, it depends more on how you approached the matter with her. As long as you didn't purposely embarrass her or insult her while you were calling her out on not knowing her stuff, I see no problem expecting someone preparing for her shodan to know the requirements.

That said-- we give all our students a written (well, e-mailed) black belt test guide upon reaching 3rd Kyu. That way no one can say they don't know the requirements and people can rest easier knowing they aren't missing anything and know exactly what to practice. If your dojo does some secretive elements to the test, you can still preserve that. For example, our test has 32 required demonstrations with #32 listed as "the rest of the exam remains untold". Might be something to look into.

[JohnASE]

If you're teaching traditional, Japanese karate, I think the Japanese terms should be taught. If you're teaching a Westernized version of Japanese karate, I don't think it matters.

What stood out to me is that you require knowledge of the Japanese terms, but not in the beginning. Students learn it later. That seems more difficult to me. I would always use Japanese terms in class, and only use English translations to explain to those who don't understand. That way, everyone hears them all the time. Immersion. Beginners wouldn't be expected to know everything, but as each technique is taught, they should learn it.

Obviously, not everyone will agree with that, and I'm not saying everyone should, but it's what I think. Maybe I've been around too many Japanese senseis.

[Spartacus Maximus]

Strangely I have never come across this debate since I first set foot in a karate dojo. It may have sounded odd and somewhat exotic to use Japanese terms in the beginning but it was always quickly accepted without a second thought. Japanese terms were heard and repeated often enough that anyone would eventually know them.

Most Dojos use Japanese terms in this way and it is a good idea to expose students to the original terminology but I cannot agree with the idea of making it mandatory requirement. Knowing Japanese may be helpful but it is irrelevant to learning skills.

If a student knows how to block does it really matter if said student forgets what the block is called in Japanese?

[sensei8]

Much, much, much earlier we students had no choice!! Soke and Dai-Soke barely spoke English, and I mean barely. I spent many classes doing push-ups because I was laughing at them...I was 7 years old.

Broken English is all we got for many, many, many years, so, we learned to speak Japanese terms more out of necessity than anything else. Their English got better, but, not much, imho!!

Pointing...grunting...moving us to where they wanted us..."You here not here!!" Miyagi from "Karate Kid" was an English speaking professor compared to them.

I agree, it's up to the CI, and NOT up to the governing body if students are going to learn the Japanese terms or not!! I love it, because, for me, it brings me close to Shindokan roots.

It's a choice!! But if the CI says you will...then you will, vise versa!! So, imho, you were right on the money!!

[Spartacus Maximus]

Much, much, much earlier we students had no choice!! Soke and Dai-Soke barely spoke English, and I mean barely. I spent many classes doing push-ups because I was laughing at them...I was 7 years old.

Broken English is all we got for many, many, many years, so, we learned to speak Japanese terms more out of necessity than anything else. Their English got better, but, not much, imho!!

Pointing...grunting...moving us to where they wanted us..."You here not here!!" Miyagi from "Karate Kid" was an English speaking professor compared to them.

I know what that's like Sensei8. I still struggle to make sense of what my instructor says even though I have learned all the terminology in Japanese as well as a functional fluency in that language. There is always the need to compensate with more practical demonstration.

[sensei8]

Much, much, much earlier we students had no choice!! Soke and Dai-Soke barely spoke English, and I mean barely. I spent many classes doing push-ups because I was laughing at them...I was 7 years old.

Broken English is all we got for many, many, many years, so, we learned to speak Japanese terms more out of necessity than anything else. Their English got better, but, not much, imho!!

Pointing...grunting...moving us to where they wanted us..."You here not here!!" Miyagi from "Karate Kid" was an English speaking professor compared to them.

I know what that's like Sensei8. I still struggle to make sense of what my instructor says even though I have learned all the terminology in Japanese as well as a functional fluency in that language. There is always the need to compensate with more practical demonstration.

It was what is was, and yes, functional fluency was a relief, to say the least!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

Beyond the very basics (kiyotsuke, rei, dojo, gi, hajime), we don't teach any Japanese at all, though in the black belt test guide there is a section with just a few (maybe 20) Japanese terms and words it's good to know.

As a teacher, though, it depends more on how you approached the matter with her. As long as you didn't purposely embarrass her or insult her while you were calling her out on not knowing her stuff, I see no problem expecting someone preparing for her shodan to know the requirements.

That said-- we give all our students a written (well, e-mailed) black belt test guide upon reaching 3rd Kyu. That way no one can say they don't know the requirements and people can rest easier knowing they aren't missing anything and know exactly what to practice. If your dojo does some secretive elements to the test, you can still preserve that. For example, our test has 32 required demonstrations with #32 listed as "the rest of the exam remains untold". Might be something to look into.

I don't go out to embarrass or insult the students when requiring them to know the terms. We ensure that all students are aware of the requirements for promotion to any grade as early as possible. As we usually in class as well quiz students to see what they remember of what they know and will remind them that they should be learning these and reminding them to ask questions (even if they are say a green belt they pretty much know the terms)

We ensure that all our students are know all the terms because if they decide to travel overseas or even move dojo's that speak limited english (if any) and train then they will be ok. But we also have instructors come from various countries that don't speak english so they need to know it.

And we also teach the japanese terminology because it helps you learn something and not just the moves. And it makes you think therefore grow as a person to link the move to the term

[Kusotare]

I'm just glad I don't do Ballet.

I've never been able to master the French language! lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_ballet