Interesting situation at blackbelt

[RAM18]

Hi All,

I have an interesting situation developing in my club at the moment and wondered what people thought about it...especially those of you who are several years and a few dans in!

I have friends who are either 1st / 2nd Dan and one a 3rd Dan. Myself and one other friend are due to grade for 1st Dan in March.

Of all these friends 4 have quit recently. They have all said that there isn't enough at blackbelt to keep them interested...they do the same thing every week and they are bored.

My friend who was due to grade 1st dan has decided not too due to this. He does another martial art as well and says karate is not challenging enough!

4 people isn't a huge impact as we have around 35-40 adult students of all grades but it seems odd that they all are quitting now.

As someone who is still loving my karate its strange to me. I cant imagine quitting. The essence of karate is someways is repetition for the pursuit of perfection that may or may not be obtained. They are all very competent at karate but as always there would be room for improvement but they have chosen not to pursue it.

Is this a failure of my club to provide adequate things for the blackbelts to do or is it just personal choice that they have all discussed it and come to the same conclusion?

I worry that if i make my 1st dan will i fall into this boredom too? What has kept people going to karate for 5+ years?

[jaypo]

A couple of things could be happening. First, they may be getting into the "style of the week" syndrome. It happened where I live. For years, Karate and TKD were the only schools around. But then, 2 BJJ clubs opened, and did okay. But as soon as they started advertising "MMA" training, people flocked to it. It ran 1 school ran by a national champion 7th DAN out of business, pretty much. 2 clubs here offer Kickboxing and Muay Thai. I, personally, am looking into Muay Thai, but I'm not quitting Karate for it. I'm supplementing my training with it. They may feel that those other arts are better. The other thing is that they may be getting cold feet. I know one of our senior students refused to test for black belt because she said she wasn't ready. Turns out, she was actually scared. But she eventually did it. And another possibility is that they got burned out.

Whatever the reason, I hope everything works out.

[Nevinyrral]

I think It all depends on the person. Some may have diffrent goals then others.

I myself like karate because its repetitive, and even though I'm a 2kuy I know there is a loooong way in front of me, and maybe I'll never be a master.

There are also lot of better people than me in both kata and kumite.

So you shouldn't mind people choosing to quit (as long as it will not lead to club disbandment) and focus on your training

[Wastelander]

This is incredibly common--the vast majority of people who make shodan will never make nidan, because they will quit first. I've only been training for about 8.5 years, and only just earned my black belt last Summer, but I've certainly seen it happen. From what I've seen, there are two main reasons for this:

1. Their goal was "black belt," and now that they have it, they feel as if they "finished what they started."

2. They are bored with the yudansha curriculum, if there is any.

With the people who fall into number 1, nothing can typically be done. They had a goal for their training, they achieved it, and they have decided not to set any further goals for their training. I have never seen these people be convinced to stay. They do, however, sometimes come back after a decade, or so.

With the people in number 2, you have options to keep them. Repetition is important, of course, but even the most dedicated karateka can become bored. Some dojo take the "easy" route and just add more kata or formal partner drills (like yakusoku kumite or ippon/sanbon/etc. kumite) for yudansha to learn. The trouble with this is that, by the time someone has earned their black belt, a new kata or partner set is usually pretty easy to learn and doesn't really add much value for them. I once heard it put this way; "if you train for 30 years, and look back on it, have you really trained for 30 years, or have you trained 3 years 10 times over?"

The yudansha ranks should not just be repeating kihon and kata all class, every class--they should be exploring and experimenting with them, and challenging yourself in new ways. Here is my challenge to you, for when you have achieved your shodan rank:

Pick a kata that you feel comfortable performing without thinking--that is, a kata you can run and have a conversation at the same time. Make it your goal, in the following year, to figure out your own applications for the movements in the kata. These should not be simple applications where a "block" is a block and a "punch" is a punch, but more advanced applications where you're grabbing, throwing, choking, breaking joints, etc. Do your best to figure out the context of your kata, and see if you can find applications that connect to each other, so that if your opponent counters or blocks your first technique, you can use the next technique to address that obstacle.

This is very difficult to do, but I personally find it very stimulating and helpful to my training. As you work on them, test them with partners and see if you can make them work under pressure. If you can, then start visualizing those applications when you practice the kata, and I think you will see a positive change in your karate.

[bushido_man96]

A couple of things could be happening. First, they may be getting into the "style of the week" syndrome. It happened where I live. For years, Karate and TKD were the only schools around. But then, 2 BJJ clubs opened, and did okay. But as soon as they started advertising "MMA" training, people flocked to it. It ran 1 school ran by a national champion 7th DAN out of business, pretty much. 2 clubs here offer Kickboxing and Muay Thai. I, personally, am looking into Muay Thai, but I'm not quitting Karate for it. I'm supplementing my training with it. They may feel that those other arts are better. The other thing is that they may be getting cold feet. I know one of our senior students refused to test for black belt because she said she wasn't ready. Turns out, she was actually scared. But she eventually did it. And another possibility is that they got burned out.

Whatever the reason, I hope everything works out.

jaypo lays out some of the big reasons here. As an instructor over the years, I've seen many students leave once they hit black belt. Many set it as a goal, and once they've hit it, they think that's it. Its unfortunate, but it happens. I've had some very talented students quit shortly after black belt. Some of it could be the fault of the curriculum, as well. I am personally a fan of having black belt focused classes that provide training that is different than the standard classes. The basics are still important, but at some point, the law of diminishing returns sets in, and it can be beneficial to alter the training course somewhat.

Another conclusion is that it is perhaps time in these Martial Artists' journeys to step back, or turn down a different path. If they continue some sort of training, this is a good thing, even if it isn't with your club. Try to keep in contact with them, and have open training times with them when you can. Perhaps eventually your passion will re-kindle a spark in them to return.

[Zaine]

Firstly, there is so much more to do and learn as a 1st dan and above than there is from 10th kyu to 1st. Does the learning come over a longer period, yes, but that is because when you get promoted to 1st Dan you have proven to your sensei that you have the commitment to the system to stick it through and grow at what certainly feels like a slower pace but is in fact exponentially faster than you realized.

Secondly, Martial Arts isn't for everyone and some people only enjoy it when they are ranking up quickly. At 1st Dan you stop ranking up quickly and what used to take months now takes years. However, the things that you learn are much deeper and they take time to understand and perfect, a lot more is expected from you at 1st Dan and above and not everyone is ready, or willing, to rise to the challenge.

Finally, you seem passionate about your martial arts. Did I get bored of what I was learning sometimes? Absolutely! There is a lot of repetition and tedium attached to martial arts at times and it isn't always about learning new things one after another. What kept me going, however, was that I love martial arts. Even when I was bored of it I remembered that I would learn new things and discoveries happen everywhere from 10th kyu to 10th Dan so never stop learning! Good luck!

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

Advanced Karate training is a hot topic for me....I can ramble on and on...so excuse the length of my post....As the previous posters mentioned already, several reasons could be the cause for experienced students to leave a club. I can think of the following:

1. Goal (i.e., black belt) achieved: moving on to something else.

What to do: Not much to be done, except to respect their decision.

2. Life priorities change: Maybe the age of 1st - 3rd Dan coincides with people completing their studies, moving up their job ladder, or starting a family. All these changes leave less time for Karate.

What to do: Respect their decision. Keep in touch, their life may change again and allow a return to Karate later.

3. Knowledge exceeds skill: At some point (often between Shodan and Nidan) a Karateka's knowledge advances faster than his/her physical skill level. As a new Shodan one might be proud (but ignorant). Then, continuing the training, one's knowledge expands and one notices all those tiny mistakes everywhere. It feels like moving backwards for a while. That can be quite frustrating.

What to do: Sensei to explain the situation. Student to stick to it. Work through this phase, realize one's progress, compare to other "advanced beginners" and keep practicing!

4. Not enough peers at comparable level: leading to lack of challenge, frustration and then boredom. Mixed classes (beginners and black belts are not enough).

What to do: Talk with instructor about advanced classes (Black belt only). Find additional and/or new club offering advance classes. Go to seminars inside and outside of your organization.. if they don't let you do that: Change club immediately!

5. Instructor only fit to teach Kyu-level Karate: He/she could be excellent at teaching basics (I know I am not!). Dan-level Karate (as Wastlander pointed out exactly) should be different: More individual, advanced concepts!

What to do: Student: Time to think & study yourself. It is actually rare to find an instructor who can really guide advanced Dan students. Seek one that can! Instructors should conduct advanced classes (I mean black belts only!). Also, instructors should admit their limits, let students progress with other teachers if ready. The teachers biggest achievement is a student who surpasses him/her!

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

A fitting anecdote: I happened to be in Japan (training camp) on my 10th Karate anniversary exactly. I mentioned this to one of the senior instructors (50+ year experience) after he had taught me the last Kata in Goju Ryu (Suparimpai). He smiled and said: Good. Now you can start Karate.

I am not making this up. Funny thing is, it was so true.

[Kusotare]

Hi All,

I have an interesting situation developing in my club at the moment and wondered what people thought about it...especially those of you who are several years and a few dans in!

I have friends who are either 1st / 2nd Dan and one a 3rd Dan. Myself and one other friend are due to grade for 1st Dan in March.

Of all these friends 4 have quit recently. They have all said that there isn't enough at blackbelt to keep them interested...they do the same thing every week and they are bored.

My friend who was due to grade 1st dan has decided not too due to this. He does another martial art as well and says karate is not challenging enough!

4 people isn't a huge impact as we have around 35-40 adult students of all grades but it seems odd that they all are quitting now.

As someone who is still loving my karate its strange to me. I cant imagine quitting. The essence of karate is someways is repetition for the pursuit of perfection that may or may not be obtained. They are all very competent at karate but as always there would be room for improvement but they have chosen not to pursue it.

Is this a failure of my club to provide adequate things for the blackbelts to do or is it just personal choice that they have all discussed it and come to the same conclusion?

I worry that if i make my 1st dan will i fall into this boredom too? What has kept people going to karate for 5+ years?

I see you study Wado-ryu here in he UK RAM18.

Wado has a problem in this respect...

1. On the surface, the typical Wado-ryu school's syllabus is more than likely quite brief in terms of number of techniques.

That makes it fairly easy to get to Dan grade (there's not a huge amount of mental weight lifting involved!).

Truth is, to progress further in Wado - the devil is in the detail and you need to be taught how to utilise the core principles that present themselves - as apparatus!

This can only be done under the watchful eye of a truly knowledgeable instructor - however said experienced instructors are about as rare as the droppings of a rocking horse (the world over).

2. As a result of Number 1, there are a number of very well meaning instructors who got to Dan grades in the 70's 80's and 90's here in the UK and then decided they knew enough to open their own schools and associations - most of which augmented their reasoning behind "sport / free style kumite".

Whilst this approach will get the next generation of Wado-ka up to Dan grade - they will be faced with the same dilemma when their instructor's teachings comes to the end of the road.

Unfortunately, this is Wado's self fulfilling prophesy, as it will only happen again and again.

K.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Yes it is a hard thing to keep people interested in continuing after achieving black belt and they quit due to boredom.

I think it is part the job of the instructor to keep things fresh and interesting where you don't do the same thing.

At my dojo when i train in the "Mixed" Class my sensei will normally get us black belts to have a little play around with things to figure out how to move and execute things instead of doing the same old thing every week. Yes we do practice a lot of our curriculum to keep up to date but he recognizes we get bored easily so he changes it up weekly.

I know a lot of people who have quit because they don't want that responsibility to teach others during class and everything else that it comes with.

Yes I love my karate and can't fathom why someone would quit but I admit i too quit for a time because of boredom. But came back within' 3 years of me quitting because i missed it.

Quitting due to a lack of a challenge is often occuring due to the fact that once they hit their black belt they won't grade as often and also they may feel that their sensei doesn't push them as hard.

For us black belts that train in the advanced class we do have some fun and learn techniques, kata or whatever my sensei is at least knowledgeable in he will share with us. So far he has taught us:

- Jion (Shotokan)

- Empi (Shotokan)

- Bassai Dai (Shotokan + Shito Ryu versions)

- Anan (Ryeui Ryu)

- Nipaipo (Shitoryu)

Also he teaches us Balintawak Arnis