Have You Actually Seen a 10 Year Old Full Black Belt?

[Patrick]

Hey all,

The age of a black belt is a constant topic here. We have a popular thread titled "10 year old Black Belts!," and it got me to thinking.

How many of you have actually seen, in person, a 10 year old full black belt?

Not a junior black belt. Not a kids super dragon club black belt. A full black belt in their organization. On a 10 year old (or younger). Let's go ahead and say 12 or younger. Not heard about one online. Not supposedly seen one in a YouTube video. Not heard about one from a friend. Actually seen one, in person, with your own eyes where you were 100% sure that the kid was both 12 years or younger and that they had a full black belt. Not just thinking to yourself "oh, they look young. Wait, is that black cloth around their waist?! They must be a full black belt!"

Vote yes only if you can satisfy that criteria fully. Vote no if you can't.

It's often talked about, but I thought it would be interested to find out how many of you have actually seen it first hand. Vote in the poll.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Wastelander]

I voted "Yes." As a matter of fact, I just saw one a few weeks ago. His family just moved here from another state, where they practiced another style of karate. He was 11, and had been a black belt for at least a year. I've also seen a few walking out of other martial arts schools in the area, although I haven't personally met them.

[Harkon72]

Yes, my previous Sensei's daughter. She was born into it. She was awarded Shodan at 10 years old. I think it was token at best, she's a child. I don't think that all the Dan grades in her father's association deserve their grades; but that's another story.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I haven't personally seen one. But then again when I compete there may be children with "full" black belts but I just don't know it because they are either wearing red or blue whilst competing.

But a child holding a full black belt and is under the age of 16 is unacceptable for me personally. UNLESS they are able to show that they can train and perform above and beyond that of someone their age and also have the physical and psychological maturity that goes along with it.

[tallgeese]

That's a great call, Patrick.

This is one of those things we all rail against (full fledged kid black belts, not "junior"designees) but I'm willing to bet doesn't happen all that often. In fact, I'd bet that at least half of all the academys that we all complain about due to the high number of kids and black belts probably consider them some sort of "junior" as well but we just don't take the time to ask.

I think the "junior" black belt debate is valid at some level, but so common that it's industry standard these days. I'm willing to bet if we stopped to ask instead of assuming there's much less of this "kids with full black belts" than we think.

[sensei8]

Ever been to a MA tournament?

Well, those that you're speaking about are there in droves. So, YES, I've seen 12 year old and younger black belts with my own eyes, and I've groaned...out loud. They're everywhere...nowadays, one doesn't have to look that hard to find them IN PERSON!!

Visit your local MA schools, all of them, and you'll find them for yourself, and again, IN PERSON!!

Well, to each their own.

[hammer]

I voted no but it was close to yes.

IIRC the last school I went to awarded a full BB to a 13 YO. The school did not believe in junior grades. Do remember that the kid was talented and had the skills...but he left about 1 year afterwards, think he had some differences with the headmaster.

[jaypo]

We have one 9 year old girl that was awarded a junior black belt in our club. I have some reservations about it, but she truly does have the knowledge and skill for a high rank. She's just so little!!! In all fairness to her, she has been training for years in the martial arts, her father trains with her at home, her brother is an amateur boxer that helps her a lot with sparring, and she trains about twice as many hours as any student at any other school around here. So she has put in the work. If she were 16 yrs old, she probably would be a full black belt or Shodan-ho. But because she's so young, she is a junior black belt.

I had a conversation with the brother of my old Sensei. He has a son that is 10 and has been practicing in a JKA school for 4 years. He made it to 1st kyu, and the next testing cycle, he wanted to test for black belt. Master Mikami is the one that sits on the testing board and has the final decision. So he allowed the kid to test and immediately failed him. He did fine during the test. But Master Mikami did not think he was old enough, so instead of not allowing him to test, he did test him, but failed him.

[ps1]

Yes. The practice is quite common. In my 30 years of training I've probably met/trained with/competed against over 100 people under the age of 12 that were black belts in their system.

[DWx]

In short, yes. My sister received hers at 12. (FWIW I was awarded mine at 14.) We didn't then but we now have proper junior blackbelt ranks. When I tested though the only thing that separated child from adult was the level of the breaking requirement. Every other part of the test, from the written exam to understanding to practical aspect was the same.

Every time the question of young blackbelt come up I think we have to answer the folowing:

- What is a blackbelt? What are the physical and mental attributes?

- Why can't younger students possess these qualities?

The ITF still award 1st dan to those 13 and over.