The romantic notion of The Kumite (100-man kumite)

[Melau]

Though I recon that most of you know the 100-man kumite, here is a short outline: The challenge was devised by Masutatsu Oyama, the founder of Kyokushin. The story goes that he set an example as the first to complete such a feat, fighting a 300-man kumite over a 3 day period. Having set the example, Mas Oyama started to institute the 100-man kumite. To date, only 19 individuals (including Mas Oyama) have comleted this gruelling test of character and endurance.

Currently I have been training Wado-Ryu for about 20 years (I am now in my mid 20's) and finally my body and mind are 'maturing' in terms of toughness, calmness, stamina, explosiveness, etc. Wado-Ryu style is 'soft', which suits me well considering I weight 60kg (132 pounds) and am 1.64m (5'4) tall. Still, testing my limits in a 'Kumite' (be it 10, 20, 30, etc bouts of full-contact) is luring.

Anybody even been in the same situation, or has experience with a multi-bout kumite (full-contact) and would share some of their insights and experiences?

[Hawkmoon]

Hanshi Steve Arneil, is one of the few, (and the first after Sosai) to complete the test.

I think you'll enjoy this:

IMO.

No system is truthfully soft, it is what you make it, the more or less you put in defines the results.

Your interest in combat, and kumite test of 10 or so shows your desire to be more than you realize!

Your size is going to be a factor, be assured it is exactly the same for everyone.

Search the forum there are more than a few threads about combat, kumite, and conditioning,that you could borrow from to build on as you wish!

Osu!

[sensei8]

Mas Oyama would've done a 4th day, but nobody wanted to. Can anyone honestly blame them?!?

A test of Shugyo, if there ever was one, imho!!

[Hawkmoon]

hehehe!

I'll add, that back then (I may be off in this point of history) Oyama karate, he'd not yet named it Kyokushin, was unheard of by many in the Martial Art world, it was new and growing, and though's who that had heard and attended all understood why it had a 90% attrition rate on students.

The 3 days of combat (The 300 man Kumite) was the mainly the same students standing up again and again to fight!

Thing was as the days passed the ones able to stand up and carry on became less and less, and so come day 4 very few could stand up at all and carry on.

... but back then the rules of "Kyokushin combat" allowed for full bear knuckle contact to the face as well as judo techniques!

One thing I didn't know was that fighting in the honbu between students was done until one or the other yielded, meaning some fights would go on for days.

Not as in 24/7 fighting, the fight would be stopped, students would go home, eat, sleep and go to work, then return to the honbu and pick up where they left off the day before!

To win the fight you were to knock the other guy out or if the other guy was to yield he was to say so (to shout out) so all could here that he submitted to other other ... hence fights went on for ages!

EDIT:

I read my post and two words struck me so I'll add this edit leaving the post in its original state!

I say in my above post" ... back then ...", and it makes it sound like some journey in history through the mist of time to some distant past.

Sosai Oyama sadly passed away, in, many of the members here, life time, in 1994.

I never met him, I was never knowingly in the same building or possible county as him but I feel pointing out the fact I and possibly many of you were alive in his life time makes the story's of him and his life that much more physical, that much more real to all ...maybe make you feel you can reach out and touch something of him and his legend!

(Does that make sence?)

Edited September 12, 2014 by Hawkmoon

[sensei8]

hehehe!

I'll add, that back then (I may be off in this point of history) Oyama karate, he'd not yet named it Kyokushin, was unheard of by many in the Martial Art world, it was new and growing, and though's who that had heard and attended all understood why it had a 90% attrition rate on students.

The 3 days of combat (The 300 man Kumite) was the mainly the same students standing up again and again to fight!

Thing was as the days passed the ones able to stand up and carry on became less and less, and so come day 4 very few could stand up at all and carry on.

... but back then the rules of "Kyokushin combat" allowed for full bear knuckle contact to the face as well as judo techniques!

One thing I didn't know was that fighting in the honbu between students was done until one or the other yielded, meaning some fights would go on for days.

Not as in 24/7 fighting, the fight would be stopped, students would go home, eat, sleep and go to work, then return to the honbu and pick up where they left off the day before!

To win the fight you were to knock the other guy out or if the other guy was to yield he was to say so (to shout out) so all could here that he submitted to other other ... hence fights went on for ages!

EDIT:

I read my post and two words struck me so I'll add this edit leaving the post in its original state!

I say in my above post" ... back then ...", and it makes it sound like some journey in history through the mist of time to some distant past.

Sosai Oyama sadly passed away, in, many of the members here, life time, in 1994.

I never met him, I was never knowingly was in the same building or possible country as him but I feel pointing out the fact I and possibly many of you were alive in his life time makes the story's of him and his life that much more physical, that much more real to all ...maybe make you feel you can reach out and touch something of him and his legend!

(Does that make sence?)

Very solid post!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

I haven't done the full contact multi-bouts. But the closest I have done was 25 rounds in a row where it was 'jiyu' kumite (my school has this as close as possible to a self defense situation where you have to push yourself and your opponent to the absolute maximum)

[Spartacus Maximus]

Maybe my thoughts on this are somewhat bias because I am not a kyokushin karateka. Or perhaps the karate I am learning is too different. Although I admire the kind of physical endurance necessary to accomplish such a feat, I do not see any interest or point to it. Standard sparring bouts are usually less than 3 minutes and are stopped after one scores a certain number of hits or knocks the opponent down/out. Street( is there a better word) situations are usually over within a few seconds. Where or how the 100 man kumite would be relevant, I have no idea.

I would be more interested in an exercise to test things like:

Threat awareness, timing of techniques, striking focus/correct power generation etc.

You don't have to spar a hundred men non-stop to see how much endurance you have.

[Hawkmoon]

Look at this like this (no I'm not upset, annoyed or angry or ) be assured I'm happy with all that you say.

The point you seek is maybe better said like this:

Awesome speech but I'll point to 1.35 secs onwards to answer your question about the 'point of it'.

Then I'll ask, suggest, implore everyone to get a copy of a book titled:

The Book of five rings.

Written by an ancient samurai warrior named: Miyamoto Musashi.

I have a copy, read some of it realized I really didn't understand what I had read as well as I thought and am reading it again ... slower this time hehe!!

(No harm, no foul loving the opportunity to look at this from other points of view )

Edited September 12, 2014 by Hawkmoon

[Wado Heretic]

The two friends of a martial artist are tradition and adversity; have a basis in tradition, but always confront it’s truisms with challenges.

In many respects, traditional Karate, as a practice, is an exercise in hardening the body and spirit; with pragmatic self-defence being the guide of its technical direction but not the totality of its nature.

I would argue that it becomes impossible to understand the 100-man kumite; if one looks at it through the lens of it being a test of self-defence skills (That is what Jissen Kumite is for). Rather, it is a test of the hardening of the body and spirit. It takes a special kind of person to put themselves through such a trial; and if you look at the list of names of those reported to have done it, you will find exceptional martial artists, but perhaps not a list of champions.

In my club, I make all black belts go through a ten-man Kumite under modified shoot-fighting rules. I also throw myself into the fray during said grading kumite as a matter of principle. The most I have fought is a 20-man kumite; but had to cycle through the 7 volunteers I could find.

Best starting points I could give are Sanchin, hojo undo, and working your way up. Try 2, then 3, then 5, then 7, and then finally 10 (All at about 70% power though).

At your size, you might struggle more than most, less ability to absorb body shots after all; so if you want to try such a test, I would focus on developing a solid defence.

[Hawkmoon]

To add my own experience as a new and young karateka ... a few years ago ... !

I was about 17 & 61/2Kgs!

A lightweight possibly a feather weight (if such a category existed in Kyokushin) and from the get go I had to fight for all my grades/belts !

• Red belts (10th & 9th kyu) 3 fights Light contact.
   
  Blue belt (8th & 7th kyu) 5 fights light contact
   
  Yellows (6 & 5 kyu) 7 fights Light contact

Then things change ...

• Green belts (4 & 3rd kyu) 5 light contact, 3 then 4 at knockdown
   
  Brown belts (2nd 1st kyu) 5 knockdown ... at least!

Shodan then as now 10 Knockdown ... at least.

(one of the shodans I spoke with a few weeks back had 18 fights)

Continuous bouts are a good thing of this I have no doubt, the Kyokushin 100 man test is just that its a test Sosai Oyama was inspired by the book 'The Book of Five rings" written by Miyamoto Musashi.

Tests can be what you want them to be in this sense, a:

- 10 man

- 20 man

- 25 man

- 50 man

whatever you want.

As I was saying in an earlier post ...

IMO.

No system is truthfully soft, it is what you make it, the more or less you put in defines the results.

Your interest in combat, and kumite test of 10 or so shows your desire to be more than you realize!

Your size is going to be a factor, be assured it is exactly the same for everyone.

I'm a middle weight now, and ... um... not 17 anymore

I'm to prepare for a shodan grading next year, so my training in that respect starts now, a kumite test is no different, you know what it is, you know how to do 'stuff' but the test is can you do it?

Your weight is a factor, it is for me, s it is for the heavy weights in the dojo, its the spirit the mind the stamina... not because it is easy but because it is hard!