Wanduan Kata

[devil dog]

Does any one here know this Kata? I can't find a single art that lists it.

Our new Soshi told me and two other instructors that he would like to pass this Kata on to us. It's not in our list of Kata. He says that Sensei taught it to him and one other instructor and also said it is a Kata that is usually only taught to the highest of students.

I have googled it and found a little history on the Kata but do not understand why it would be taught to us when it was not taught as apart of our curriculum. I have no idea if it was taught by the founder and was passed down as he said to the highest students. If this was so why would it not at least show up in the curriculum? Hakutsuru is apart of the curriculum and that was only taught to the highest students. I don't really get it but I am excited to learn something new so I will.

Any insight or thoughts? Any additional history would be appreciated as well.

[Harkon72]

Wow, I'm going to sound a little cynical here ok? If anyone says to me "Shh, this is a secret kata that no-one knows outside Dai Hanshi Shidoshi's circle and it's only been taught to the seventh student of a seventh student." then I'm going to be slightly cautious. But, as you say the kata does exist, it has been taught and in some circles it must be well known. In that case, go for it, but keep in mind that you are learning your teacher's version of it from his teacher and so on. We all know of the Chinese Whisper effect of learning kata along the linage, but good luck, you might enjoy it.

[Nidan Melbourne]

It is a bit strange that it isn't listed in the curriculum. Even if it is taught to only selected students.

[sensei8]

For me, a small red keeps blinking. Secret? Hhhmmm!! Nidan Melbourne makes a point...

It is a bit strange that it isn't listed in the curriculum. Even if it is taught to only selected students.

If within your style this kata is legit, then COOL!! However, if your style says the kata is legit, then it's legit!!

[Kanku65]

In shotokan karate we have Wankan. (similar name)

Which i believe is actually listed as the 26th shotokan kata, and most potentially is taught only to the highest ranked students. Meaning those of a certain level, not a secret group.

Gichin Funakoshi changed the names of many forms as he developed his own personal style, therefore i do not know whether this is the traditional name or not. But, perhaps this is the kata you're looking for.

[Harkon72]

That's strange, Shito Ryu and then Shukokai have similar kata to that, they're not even that advanced, it looks like a brown belt kata to me.

[devil dog]

Well I did a little more reseach on it and found that it was one of the oldest Kata along with Channan and others that were taught to the original founders of Shuri Te and Tomari Te if the websites can be believed (gotta love the internet).

I found a pictorial of the kata on someones website and it doesn't look to be too complicated. Maybe the Bunkai will prove differently however at first glance... not what I would consider advanced. Of course once the applications are revealed I may understand more about this Kata.

I have not been able to find any styles that have it as part of their curriculum except one Shito ryu site which is in spanish which I do not speak so dead end there.

I do know from my research that this Kata comes from Five Ancestor Fist practiced in the Shaolin Temple which pre-dates White Crane fist or Hakutsuru which means it pre-dates Matsumura, Sakugawa and Kusanku and therefore was not created by any of the Okinawan Masters.

I have found several sites claiming that it was a well known Kata and that it was brought to Okinawa via the Chinese emissaries and was also taught in the Fuzou and Fukien Temples.

I guess it is possible that our founder or someone in our lineage was taught this Kata and past it down to certain students rather than in the curriculum but I will have to ask to get more insight.

I could think about this another way, in that, it is good that we still have it where we do not have others. Channan was said to have been taught to Matsumura but we do not practice this Kata today. So if this is an earlier Kata or foundational kata that others were structured from, I guess it's good that we still have it to study. It may even shed light on some of the other kata's and give us a better understanding of the applications.

Who knows but it's exciting never the less.

This is actually what I love about Karate. There is always something else to learn. You never truely know it all.

[sensei8]

Well I did a little more reseach on it and found that it was one of the oldest Kata along with Channan and others that were taught to the original founders of Shuri Te and Tomari Te if the websites can be believed (gotta love the internet).

I found a pictorial of the kata on someones website and it doesn't look to be too complicated. Maybe the Bunkai will prove differently however at first glance... not what I would consider advanced. Of course once the applications are revealed I may understand more about this Kata.

I have not been able to find any styles that have it as part of their curriculum except one Shito ryu site which is in spanish which I do not speak so dead end there.

I do know from my research that this Kata comes from Five Ancestor Fist practiced in the Shaolin Temple which pre-dates White Crane fist or Hakutsuru which means it pre-dates Matsumura, Sakugawa and Kusanku and therefore was not created by any of the Okinawan Masters.

I have found several sites claiming that it was a well known Kata and that it was brought to Okinawa via the Chinese emissaries and was also taught in the Fuzou and Fukien Temples.

I guess it is possible that our founder or someone in our lineage was taught this Kata and past it down to certain students rather than in the curriculum but I will have to ask to get more insight.

I could think about this another way, in that, it is good that we still have it where we do not have others. Channan was said to have been taught to Matsumura but we do not practice this Kata today. So if this is an earlier Kata or foundational kata that others were structured from, I guess it's good that we still have it to study. It may even shed light on some of the other kata's and give us a better understanding of the applications.

Who knows but it's exciting never the less.

This is actually what I love about Karate. There is always something else to learn. You never truely know it all.

Solid research...thanks!! Gives us something to consider and think about!

[wagnerk]

In shotokan karate we have Wankan. (similar name)

Which i believe is actually listed as the 26th shotokan kata, and most potentially is taught only to the highest ranked students. Meaning those of a certain level, not a secret group.

Gichin Funakoshi changed the names of many forms as he developed his own personal style, therefore i do not know whether this is the traditional name or not. But, perhaps this is the kata you're looking for.

It does depend on the association itself. When I did Shotokan, Wankan was the association kata and was taught from 3rd Kyu onwards and while it wasn't on any grading syllabus you could be asked to do it from 2nd Kyu onwards (as part of your grading)

[Wastelander]

I am always highly skeptical of "secret" or "inner circle" material, particularly when it includes kata that are claimed to be incredibly old. Hakutsuru and Channan are their own cans of worms, and while I'm not terribly familiar with Wanduan (I've seen it in one of McCarthy's books, and it's been discussed a bit in some other forums), it's looking like a similar situation. There tends to be a lot of political strife mixed in with these, as well, and I try to stay out of that when I can.

I will say this--if it really is that old, and really does come from Five Ancestor Fist, then you should be able to send a video of it to an experienced instructor of Five Ancestor Fist and they should be able to recognize the material. Not necessarily the exact form, but the way of moving, the postures, and the possible applications. If they don't, then it's likely either a modern creation, or it's been changed so much over time that there is little of the original material left.