The Meaning of Rank

[cardinal95]

I found myself pondering the meaning of rank this past week and was hoping to obtain some further insight from all of you brilliant karateka.

There a few of us preparing for promotions in about a month and I heard something from one of my fellow assistant instructors that I had not heard before. We were discussing another student whom we both did not feel is ready to promote due to lack of knowledge/practice as outlined on that kyu's rank sheet. When this instructor told our Sensei that she did not think this student was ready, he replied "he's ready." The student is the best fighter in the class (there are only a handful of us) and is mid-ranked. From my perspective, the student's kata's and basics and dojo etiquette are sloppy despite that his conditioning and fighting are above par for his rank. This assistant instructor explained to me, well people get promoted for lots of reasons other than what is on the sheet. This is not sitting well with me.

My knee-jerk reaction is either you know (and can execute) whats on the sheet and execute to the best of your ability or your don't. I am also weary of promoting students because they are good fighters, I don't believe that fighting and rank should have a positive correlation (it never did before in my dojo). In talking to Sensei in the past, and in picking his brain, it appears that in his mind rank is indicating the varying abilities of all the students in relation to eachother, almost like a hierarchy. From my past training, I thought rank measured an individuals ability against them-self as well as their knowledge. I am finding myself feeling uneasy with this new (to me new) system of ranking.

Any thoughts?

Edited July 11, 2015 by cardinal95

[Wastelander]

The "meaning of rank" is really a tricky subject, because every instructor has different ideas of what constitutes a yellow/green/black/etc. belt ranked student. In addition, standards aren't always "standard," because instructors will make exceptions for a variety of reasons. For example, people with physical disabilities may not be able to spar well, or execute some techniques correctly, but they have put in the work and studied hard to learn about the things they can't physically do. Conversely, some people with great amounts of physical talent may be promoted due to their effectiveness in training or competition, despite having limited knowledge.

[cardinal95]

Thanks for the insight Wastelander! I can definitely appreciated the adjustment for standards when encountering certain learning or physical disabilities. But the competing thing still has me weary...this may just be because it was emphasized that our school never promotes based on tournaments/fighting records, though this may be changing apparently.

To re-direct for a moment, it does seem as if you are discussing measuring the student against them-self/individual ability not necessarily the ability of others, am I understanding your opinion correctly?

[sensei8]

For me, the meaning of rank is quite a simple thing. It's meaningless if it's not kept in its proper context/content!!

I don't concentrate on the color, I concentrate on the student. Yes, they're wearing a colored belt, but that to me is just an OUTWARD identifier that serves only one purpose...lining-up protocol. It's part of the uniform!!

If a student of mine is more concerned with rank than knowledge, I'd prefer that they'd just go somewhere else because I've not the time or the inclination to care about any rank.

"Well, that's easy for someone like you to say that because you're a Senior Dan!" Yes, it is easy for me to say, but my rank doesn't mean a hill of beans in any shape, way, and/or form. Why? Rank is subjective, at best, imho!

Knowledge over rank! Experience over rank! Practice over rank! EVERYTHING over rank!!

Edited September 3, 2014 by sensei8

[Wastelander]

Thanks for the insight Wastelander! I can definitely appreciated the adjustment for standards when encountering certain learning or physical disabilities. But the competing thing still has me weary...this may just be because it was emphasized that our school never promotes based on tournaments/fighting records, though this may be changing apparently.

To re-direct for a moment, it does seem as if you are discussing measuring the student against them-self/individual ability not necessarily the ability of others, am I understanding your opinion correctly?

That's the way we do it, yes. That said, I have also trained at a judo club that promoted based almost entirely based on competitive performance. I was told when I started training there (as a green belt) that I knew more than enough material for a brown belt, but I would have to be beating brown belts in competition to be promoted from green to brown. I'm a perpetually bad competitor, so that never happened

[Nidan Melbourne]

This is a hard subject to have one definitive answer on since there are hundreds of thousands of schools throughout the world and the instructors will have a different idea of how each student should rank if they are of a certain standard.

Even though I am a Yudansha I suck at Head Kicks, knee joint and side kicks. Which is a combination of bad knees and poor hip flexibility to allow for them. So by some schools might fail me for poor kicks.

But Sensei takes it into account and tests me in a way that makes up for it. Often He will test me by seeing if I am able to throw or take someone down during kumite and in self defense situations and also how I cope on the ground in either a grappling situation or being attacked by someone standing. He goes Okinawan on me for my kicks since I prefer front kicks, groin kicks, thigh kicks (i have a decent one at that) and maybe a roundhouse to the body every once in a while.

So I am still on par with the black belts in relation to curriculum but has some minor variations. There are some students I train with or teach that require some minor variations like that but we tailor their ranks to them specifically and hold them to a high standard in that variation.

In terms of the color of the belt it can be irrelevant, but comes in handy for identifying where everyone should stand and also remind those who are more senior. As some people will only respond to authoritative commands from high ranks (2nd Kyu and up or often Dan Grades). At my dojo it comes in handy for when we want to split people up into groups.

It can be seen as a hierarchy type of format but for me personally it is to signify where they are at with their training and may be different. We have a couple of students that are below par for their rank which is really disappointing, but they managed to scrape by through the thinnest means (they passed by 2 marks). One of them has been a blue belt in excess of 35 lessons now and still hasn't earnt his first tag (Basics) BUT this may sound mean, but we are being hard on him so he can improve. It is frustrating for us to see him like this. We have also been trying to offer him (and his mum to bring him) to extra lessons so he can improve.

Part of every test we are looking at the persons concentration and how hard they are actually pushing themselves to perform every technique correctly.

[Harkon72]

If you want my gut reaction to your story - a good fighter doesn't always make a good martial artist. I know its a paradoxical thing to say but from my point of view its true. You need more than kicks and punches to be a karateka for example. You need respect and control, also the character for the best use of your art in a mature and responsible way. As for rank - as Sensei8 says, it means nothing. I have recently joined a martial arts club local to me that have no belts. The Sensei on the mat is the only one who wears a belt different to white. There are martial artists there with 30 years experience, but still they wear a white belt. They are graded, but only they and the Sensei know their grade. We are all equal, we line up according to experience, but even this is flexible. Rank is an illusion, a good martial artist will know your level of achievement with just a glance.

[mal103]

Three k's KKK and not Kkk kKk or kkK. It is an all round standard imho...

I left my old club for lots of reasons, one of which was the fast promotion of students who showed good spirit but were technically behind.

Rank should be a marker system on where you are on the journey and not a set of goals to achieve to get a new colour or number. If someone is lacking in one area then they need to improve on it, my old club just gave a black belt to someone that was very fast with great spirit but their technique was getting bad and they had no control.

i agree some leniency should be given for age, disabilities or non-flexible but everything the student does should be of a good standard. I feel you are in a similar place that i was whereyou dont fully agree with the standards and can no longer accept it just because Sensei says so...

[Melau]

Up to 1st Kyu I view the color of the belt as a progression of the karateka in their own right. In every Dojo there is an tremendous difference between similar ranked individuals, be it in overall knowledge / skill, stamina or power. I think this is due to the differences found between every individual.

As one progresses in the development of your karate, it is reflected in the Kyu you wear. How fast this progression goes depends entirely on the individual. I think it is an indication of where you stand from your starting point (white belt) for you personally.

However I think that the promotion to Shodan and higher should be closely guarded. Just like learning to read letters, forming words with them and eventually being able to read books (and thus start learning), I think being promoted to Shodan should reflect your mastery of the basics of karate (both in skill and spirit), and indicates that you reached a level where you can truly start learning and developing because you truly grasp the basiscs of karate.

[DaveB]

I found myself pondering the meaning of rank this past week and was hoping to obtain some further insight from all of you brilliant karateka.

There a few of us preparing for promotions in about a month and I heard something from one of my fellow assistant instructors that I had not heard before. We were discussing another student whom we both did not feel is ready to promote due to lack of knowledge/practice as outlined on that kyu's rank sheet. When this instructor told our Sensei that she did not think this student was ready, he replied "he's ready." The student is the best fighter in the class (there are only a handful of us) and is mid-ranked. From my perspective, the student's kata's and basics and dojo etiquette are sloppy despite that his conditioning and fighting are above par for his rank. This assistant instructor explained to me, well people get promoted for lots of reasons other than what is on the sheet. This is not sitting well with me.

Given, this is my first year back after a long hiatus, but I don't recall this to be a factor. Either you know whats on the sheet and execute to the best of your ability or your don't. I am also weary of promoting students because they are good fighters, I don't believe that fighting and rank should have a positive correlation (it never did before in my dojo). In talking to Sensei over the past year, and in picking his brain, it appears that in his mind rank is indicating the varying abilities of all the students in relation to eachother, almost like a hierarchy. From my past training, I thought rank measured an individuals ability against them-self as well as their knowledge. I am finding myself feeling uneasy with this new (to me new) system of ranking.

Any thoughts?

I agree that promotion through rank should in general be based on progression through a syllabus, but...

The point of a karate syllabus is not to teach you moves or dances. The point of a karate syllabus is to teach you how to fight. To promote someone who can do the moves but cannot fight to an appropriate level is demeaning to the school and the art.

To withhold rank from a person who can fight above the level of his rank but whose techniques against air is not right because you are effectively holding them back instead of pushing them forward.

Now what should happen is that a point of equilibrium is reached where sloppy technique starts to become a hindrance in his fighting and at that point the students rank should be frozen until he makes progress. At that point making the student focus on and develop his basics should lead to clear improvements in the areas in his fighting that are lacking. When that happens he can progress.

This will only work if the teacher understands combat and the relationship between fighting and form.

So ultimately rank in my view is about grading against yourself but going towards a well defined and understood objective goal of applying martial arts to violent conflict (or sport combat if that's what you want).

After that is achieved (post Dan/senior Dan) it's about politics and thus is relative to others, but that side of things is far outside my interest.

One final note on syllabus. If the aim of karate is learning to fight (and it really is), then holding someone back from ranking because they can't do certain things is the same as the teacher saying "I can only teach you one way and if it doesn't fit you I can't teach you."

Nidan above mentioned not being able to head kick. We'll to me the solution would be to identify what part head kicks play in fighting and provide an alternative that fits the same niche. The same goes for disability (obviously this has limits). There is more than one way to fight and it is the student who gets hurt if the teacher can't or won't adapt to them rather than the other way around.