different usage of the term 'Martial Art'

[guird]

When I'm not wearing a Keiko-gi, one of my favourite pastimes is archery.

I target shoot with an Olympic style recurve bow with stabilisers and a sight - but I still think this is a martial art.

In the same way as folk that study Iaido. Little or no "combative" function in today’s world but still very much a martial way.

K

an excellent point, and I agree.

[bushido_man96]

This is interesting and my Aikido Sensei has given some input into this discussion. In Sensei Halsall's opinion, if your practice of a so called combat sport involves any pre-determined techniques or moves, drills or predictable sparring, basics or forms then it is not a martial art. A martial art, according to Sensei Halsall is a practice designed for real combat and the chaotic and unpredictable world that confrontation can be. You cannot assume any form or style, you cannot follow any script. He says that many styles are focused on predictable dogmatic conformity. "Many people have black belts in attacking and defending in a certain way, that's not martial arts, you take anything for granted in combat and your dead." I totally respect this view and we practice with the intent of developing awareness of the unpredictability and to focus at the center of the storm.

So by this definition MMA would classify as a martial art as everything not forbidden for safety purposes is allowed, as opposed to say, point karate where a technique has to be done *just so* to score a point, and there are many restrictions on what may and may not be done. am I getting the idea?

more broadly, does he define a martial art as any practice that is intended to prepare you for real combat, or any practice that SUCCEEDS at preparing you for real combat.

From my experience the vast majority of aikido dojos train in large part with pre-determined attacks and specific aikido techniques. I am curious to see how you train.

Street brawling would fall under this definition of Martial Art, as well. Not that a street brawler couldn't be a Martial Artist, though. But I see what Guird is getting at, I agree.

[bushido_man96]

I had a discussion a while ago about usage of the term martial arts. My friend was only familiar with the perception that 'martial arts' only refers to eastern methods of combat.

Unfortunately, that's the way dictionaries have defined it. I think this is erroneous in the extreme.

I use martial arts as the most general term however. It refers to any codified system of combat practices. From there I use more specific labels, traditional martial arts for (more or less) what most people associate with the term 'martial arts', combat sports for kickboxing, wrestling, etc.(though TMA and combat sports are not mutually exclusive, I'd categorise kyokushin and judo in both). One can also classify by specific country of origin.

I like this layout. Martial Arts is the umbrella, and the styles and types fall under their own categories.

However, I have seen different usages as well. One krav maga advertisement mentioned that Krav is 'not martial arts, not a combat sport, it is a self defense method', As well as a the instructor at a wing chun school I tried once saying 'this isn't a sport, this isn't a martial art like tai chi where it's all about looking nice, this is a combat science (not that I saw any evidence of the scientific method being employed there, but I digress. I think you can guess why I didn't go back). This, together with a conversation with someone who doesn't train where they were convinced that in order to be a martial art something had to have performance as its primary goal, forms another usage.

I think that descriptions like these are just an attempt by others to try to sell that they are something different than the others. That, or they are really over-philosophying about what it is they do.

How do you use these terms? what do you consider proper usage? Any ideas as to how we can make proper usage more universal? (idk, have one character explain it to another in a popular martial arts movie?)

I've considered these very notions, as well. I think some "traditionalists" like the idea that they are training Martial Arts, while others are "just fighting." I think this is the wrong approach.

This is a great topic! I find it a great opportunity to shamelessly plug an article I wrote in regards to this subject some time ago:

Martial Arts: The Trouble with the Terminology

I hope you enjoy it, as it is a lot of fun to talk about this subject.

[Harkon72]

I know it is not immediately apparent by Aikido is an effective combat system. I was a skeptic for many years, this mystical cliche filled art was my pet hate, I just couldn't understand it. That was until I was sent from my karate class of many years because my sensei felt that my edge was too keen, I took the kata bunkai too seriously and kumite with me would not be safe. I was going through a traumatic time in my life, I needed a new direction. Sensei Halsall's Aikido has been a new dawn for me. This was a true martial art, I had studied karate for 25 years but I had never experienced the simple principals that sound so obvious yet can take a lifetime to master. The way of thinking is mind bending, the realizations and lessons in natural movement are overwhelming at first. It sounds crazy, but in one session I had to learn how to walk. The deficiency in natural movement and posture comes from years of practicing karate. Sensei asked me to attack him and said; "I know karate, I know what you are going to do. When I attack you, you have no idea what my attack will look like, I have no style." My other style is Ninpo, that is an unarmed combat and weapons art; the main teaching is Japanese based, but we are taught western weapons such as tomahawk and bowi knife. I don't know if that is a martial art or just a combat based training, still it's a good work out and I enjoy it.

[Nidan Melbourne]

For me a Martial Art is where you learn in a way to defend yourself for survival in a state of 'war'

Note: I use the term 'war' loosely. I am using the word in the context of combat and survival

Any forms of combat simulation be it pre-arranged or actual combat simulations where anything can happen.

During times of peace or when we aren't in a state of 'war' we can use the form of martial arts in sport.

Those who don't get pressured during kumite or other unpredictable moments during class or in tournaments people will crumple whilst defending themselves on the street.

There are some Martial Arts that are an old form that is more irrelevant these days due to the nature of the combat forms. Such as the old forms of Swordsmanship in the days of gunpowder.

Although there are some schools that are purely combat based, that have been developed from Armies around the world. Now that is a different form of combat as the development of it has been for the battlefield where you need to know the difference between ruthless aggression and compassion. For instance Krav Maga from Israel was for the army there and the state of war the country is in that you would use it on the street.

In comparison to say Melbourne Australia you won't need such ruthless aggression. But other Martial Arts would come in handy.

Self Defense Methods are still a form of Martial Art to me (IMHO) because you are learning how to defend yourself. But still have that state of war to ensure your survival.

[sensei8]

How do you use these terms?

The term MA, to me, are just words. Words that don't seem to properly justify its intents. When I speak to my students about the MA, I tell them that the MA is nothing without the practitioner breathing life in its applied effectiveness. If the practitioner can't be effective, then I'd say that those two words would better serve the world as what they are...plain words.

what do you consider proper usage?

How one uses the words, "Martial Arts" is up to the individual. Sure, there's definitions from reliable sources and the like, and for the most, people accept those definitions as the gospel truth, and those sources lay those definitions out in plain and understandable words to explain what the "Martial Arts" is. Nonetheless, until the individual embraces the "MA" for themselves, then the definitions from abroad are going to have to suffice.

Any ideas as to how we can make proper usage more universal? (idk, have one character explain it to another in a popular martial arts movie?)

I don't think that the word "universal" and the words MA can ever be in concert with one another; quite an oxymoron. We can hope, but, in my life time, I don't think that's even a possibility, well, for now.

To many Chiefs, and not enough Indians, as the saying goes, especially in the MA. One side doesn't want to compromise, and one side doesn't want to surrender the little that they have.

As long as humans have a say, the words, "Martial Arts" are just words with very little meaning beyond what one can find in a dictionary.

Please, don't misunderstand me...I love the MA, but to me, the MA has to be effective for me to take notice. But in that, what I see as effectiveness, I don't automatically think about the words...Martial Arts.