Kyogi and Bunkai

[Nidan Melbourne]

Now I know I have previously posted about Kyogi which are your own applications of kata, so they are similar to Bunkai.

Every school has Bunkai that you have to be able to do, and they are already pre-arranged so every student will do the same. So essentially it is part of the syllabus where you have to do it.

Now Kyogi, is the only part of the syllabus that you as a student get to create. 1 Kyogi involves a partner/s attacking you with an attack that you tell them to do and you will defend it using a defense that involves at least 1 technique from the kata. But you can also break down techniques if they have 'doubled' up; like in seeiunchin where you do 2 teishos going downwards, you can break it down and just use 1 of them.

But you don't have to do it exactly like how it is in the kata, so for the 2 teishos going downwards, you can use it in any way that you can that is still the technique.

Now to my questions:

1) At your school what grade do you start doing Bunkai and for which kata?

2) Does your school do something similar to what i described of kyogi?

At my dojo for Bunkai we do the following

Green, Purple & Blue Belts - Gekesai Bunkai

Brown, 1st Brown & Shodan-Ho - Gekesai Bunkai + Saifa Bunkai

Shodan - Gekesai, Saifa & Seeiunchin Bunkai

Nidan - All of the above + Sanseru

Sandan - + Seisan

Kyogi

1st Brown + Shodan-Ho: you need 25 Seeiunchin Kyogi

Shodan (to grade to Nidan): 25 Sanseru

Nidan: 25 Seisan

But for our juniors our 1st Brown students require only 10 Saifa instead of the 25 seeiunchin kyogi the adults need. But once they attain Shodan-Ho they will have to do the 25 seeiunchin kyogi.

[Wastelander]

My Sensei starts asking for kata applications when you test for brown belt ranks. We don't do "kyogi" (we don't use that word for anything, actually) like you describe, but our applications don't have to strictly adhere to the kata, necessarily. Many of the applications of our kata are implied (cat stances can imply a kick, knee, or sweep, for example) so sometimes it won't be an exact match. Also, if your partner does something weird and you have to change what you're doing, that's fine--it's more important that you can make it work, and adapt if it fails.

As far as I know, he doesn't have any set number of applications that he requires. Typically, I tell people to have two or three "go-to" applications for every kata. In my next test, I'm sure I will need quite a bit more than that, though.

[CredoTe]

My Sensei starts asking for kata applications when you test for brown belt ranks. We don't do "kyogi" (we don't use that word for anything, actually) like you describe, but our applications don't have to strictly adhere to the kata, necessarily. Many of the applications of our kata are implied (cat stances can imply a kick, knee, or sweep, for example) so sometimes it won't be an exact match. Also, if your partner does something weird and you have to change what you're doing, that's fine--it's more important that you can make it work, and adapt if it fails.

As far as I know, he doesn't have any set number of applications that he requires. Typically, I tell people to have two or three "go-to" applications for every kata. In my next test, I'm sure I will need quite a bit more than that, though.

When we do application drills, we encourage partners to do "weird" or unexpected things to force the defender to change things. This helps teach them the concept of fin di ("changing hands")...

[ps1]

When I teach, the bunkai is taught before the kata. So, starting at white belt, the student learns bunkai to Taikyoko shodan. Then the student learns Taikyoko shodan.

[mal103]

Black belts need to show bunkai for their gradings, everyone will learn bunkai but at their level. junior grades will learn basic bunkai and seniors advanced, although it is always clear that any application is one of many and not the application.

The worst I have experienced is a self appointed 5th dan telling me the kids application to advanced kata....

I think it's fine to bend the kata to explore different bunkai as I think that is the next step.

[Nidan Melbourne]

We do kyogi or in schools that I've been invited to teach at other schools I will tell them that it is exactly like bunkai.

In bunkai that everyone has to do that each individual school sets it may not work for some people or may not be fully realistic. So kyogi is adapting bunkai and Kata to our individual needs and abilities.

For instance I am not strong with head kicks so I will do body and leg shots. And our bunkai for seeiunchin has it for an attack.

We create kyogi as self defense applications hence why they have to be realistic. Often we may ask students to have an application that has more than 1 opponent. And we tell our partners during gradings apply the pressure and make it unpredictable of when they attack.

[sensei8]

When I teach, the bunkai is taught before the kata. So, starting at white belt, the student learns bunkai to Taikyoko shodan. Then the student learns Taikyoko shodan.

We teach the kata first, then the Bunkai/Oyo second. However, I do like how you do it; it's solid!!

[armanox]

We teach the kata, and then the student begins to learn the bunkai before they move on to the next kata. They may not know off of the bunkai for a kata for years to come (simple bunkai vs 'more advanced' shall we say....things that later become more throws and locks that are applied as strikes earlier on, so many things to pull out of the same motions...). Personally, I believe in visualizing the bunkai while doing the kata - it makes your kata better and helps you to understand what and why you're doing something.

[devil dog]

We start with Kata, then teach them bunkai. We break the bunkai down into three seperate parts. First we have them perform the kata against opponents and utilize the techniques for what they think they are. This allows them to see if the technique actually works for the intended application or if it just does not make sense. Then the student is shown the technique for what it is and how it applies whether it is a strike, block, throw, joint lock, etc. This gets the students mind going and they start to realize that there are various applications for each technique. The final stage is allowing the student to examine and difine what they feel best works for a designated technique or group of techniques in the kata. This is very much the same thing you speak of.

Bunkai is used to break down and analyze the kata. This allows the student to engage and work out techniques and applications for themselves and thus allows the student self discovery.

We test on the second form of bunkai up to Ikkyu. After that the student is asked to provide their interpretation and not only show the progression but discuss it in great detail complete with what type of application it works for and what applications it does not work for. Both pro's and cons. Strengths and weaknesses.

It's surprizing how much you can actually learn from your students. They see things with a different perspective that you may never have thought of before.

Bunkai is a very valuable core part of Karate and personally I Kata without Bunkai is not Kata but merely an exercise.

[cheesefrysamurai]

so kyogi is ones personal bunkai?