an odd experience

[kensei]

So, the other day I was called down to a juniors club to chat with a new student. It was kind of strange as the junior is a Nidan and has a beautiful new club, the admin suggested I chat with the lad to see what was up.

I got to the club and the guy was sitting int eh office with a Gi on and chatting with the admin and instructor and when I entered they introduced me and kind of sat back and let the new student bring up the topic for my visit.

Apparentlyt he young lad (about 24) had been training on his own for some time, about three years he said and had learned the seven Kata that we require for Black belt level and he was asking to be graded based on his learning and see what level he was at. ....I had to ask for further details as in my 35 years of training I had never seen this or been asked to grade someone on the spot having never known them or trained them. He infact wanted to see if we would grant him up to Black belt level and would let him test for Shodan when our testing instructor came out to our clubs in the spring! We as a group had never met this guy and he admitted his entire training was based on reading Best Karate and watching Kata on line, he got his kumite training with a bunch of buddies he would spar with and that was his whole regement.

Having said this, the kid was in great shape, he ran 10K races and probably spent more time in the gym in one week than most of my students have in a life time! The kid was solid and could do the splits, showed great flexibility and other than being a bit rough in spots he was actually very tallented.

I explained to him that we grade based on several criteria and one of them was time in, which seemed unfair because he just said he did three to four years of hard self training, but I explained we have a rank set up and we could grade him at the next testing and evaluate his level when that happenes in three months, as we had just completed a cycle of testing.

an interesting and strange experience to say the least. what would you all have done??

[jaypo]

Not sure how I feel about that. On one hand, people like Joe Lewis were able to got to Okinawa and test for a black belt in 7 months because of his talent. On the other hand, Master Kanazawa took 2 years to get his, and he's now a 10th dan and a legend.

IMHO, the rank (or belt color) that a student displays is a function of his skill level. His skill level should include the knowledge of his kihon, kata, and kumite. But if he's testing for Shodan, he should be able to show the bunkai of each move of each kata that is required in that system.

I guess that if everything he does and knows is on par with the Shodans in that system, he should be allowed to try for the rank because if the rank is determined by the student's skill level, and his skill level is equal to a Shodan's, then he should be able to try for it.

If it's a matter of time requirements, he said he put in the time, albeit not at your facility. The thing I'd look for is his timing in his techniques. It's one thing to watch 1 or 3 steps on Youtube, but it's another to actually do them properly with someone throwing a full power punch at your face. That and kumite. He may be athletic as Lebron James, but if he can't evade and use angles like a true karateka, he needs work.

[ps1]

This conversation is about a few things.

1. It's about a person who doesn't understand the culture of martial arts.

2. It's about your ability to explain something within the culture to someone who doesn't understand the culture.

Kind of like trying to explain kata to people that don't believe in it.

I always explain time requirements as being about 2 things:

1. Commitment: I don't want to waste my time training someone who isn't committed to training for a long period of time. I'm certainly not promoting a black belt who hasn't dedicated themselves to the art. This is half the reason to use contracts...to get people that are dedicated and committed.

2. Loyalty: It sometimes sounds cultish or conceited, but I won't promote a black belt that isn't loyal to my academy.

That's exactly what I would have explained to the young man. He might be very skilled and progress more quickly than usual. But there's no way anyone can, in good conscious, guarantee a Shodan test sight unseen.

That's my take.

Odd situation indeed, though.

[Kusotare]

2. Loyalty: It sometimes sounds cultish or conceited, but I won't promote a black belt that isn't loyal to my academy.

I don't think loyalty to a keiko-kai is cultish - in fact I think it's a major part of it.

If the young man wants you to recognise what he perceives as his grade then, he should first and foremost, join and train regularly with the boys and girls - with whom he is asking to be recognised as a peer.

Sounds like he has a good "gymnastic" ability to replicate what he has seen on a 2D screen but, training as part of a group - and doing pair work with people with varying strengths and sizes can't be taught from a DVD.

Nor can humility really.

K.

[Kusotare]

an interesting and strange experience to say the least. what would you all have done??

I would have asked him to train regularly with the group for at least 6 months.

After which, I would allow him to examine for any grade that he thought he was capable of passing.

If (as a result of the examination) he did not show the proficiency levels that your group requires (for the levels he aspired to) - I would recommend the appropriate grade that he should be awarded.

If he doesn't like it...Well, your question is answered!

That way you’ve given him all the chances…

K.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Learning the kata and the like is one thing BUT it doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be at a high level.

For instance i could go out and learn all the required kata for Shotokan to attain Shodan and spar with friends. And I could go to a Shotokan instructor and ask to be graded to shodan. Even if i trained solidly for multiple years on my own it still doesn't mean that i am truly black belt level.

Like everyone else said i would ask him to train for an amount of time so i can properly evaluate his skill levels before allowing him to grade. And ensure they are aware of everything that they are required to know.

[bushido_man96]

Kusotare and ps1 make good points here. He may be talented, but he needs to spend some time in the school, working alongside other students and becoming a part of the school. What is this guys goal? For you to test him to black belt, and then what? He leaves and opens his own club? Or leaves and forever tells others how he earned his rank? Some of this could come back on the reputation of your club, too.

With all that said, its not uncommon to see someone graded up a bit if their level of skill and understanding warrants it. Understanding is the key. Good athletes can perform atheltic movements pretty well; its what they do. The understanding is the key. Make sure to evaluate that, for sure.

[Archimoto]

Kusotare and ps1 make good points here. He may be talented, but he needs to spend some time in the school, working alongside other students and becoming a part of the school. What is this guys goal? For you to test him to black belt, and then what? He leaves and opens his own club? Or leaves and forever tells others how he earned his rank? Some of this could come back on the reputation of your club, too.

With all that said, its not uncommon to see someone graded up a bit if their level of skill and understanding warrants it. Understanding is the key. Good athletes can perform atheltic movements pretty well; its what they do. The understanding is the key. Make sure to evaluate that, for sure.

I agree with this and add the following.

There are two parts to any test. The first is the technique or the curriculum. And the second is the persons mental state and character. Both are developed hand in hand and the latter is equally important especially when grading for a higher belt. Ultimately, even IF he was able to perform the curriculum properly I don't think that you could possibly assess his character without him spending more time with you. Know what I mean?

[Doctrine612]

I had been training at a school for years earned my ich kyu then our instructor feel away from our organization, all of the students were disinvowed as well for staying with the instructor, then a few months later the instructor closed the school. So a few students and I, joined the school in the next town. Everything was fine for a few weeks then the leaders of the old group called our new school leaders told then who we were, then the new school demoted us to 6th kyu. When we were all ready for our shodan level test. I felt slited, so left found a high ranking master in our style, told our story, he came out and tested all of us, and granted us all shodan. Then told us to keep training together, and learn all the higher level katas we could. Good thing I am able to learn a new kata in a few hours,( I mean the patern of the kata). So I would teach it to the others and then a year later the master came to visit us again and tested us for nidan, stayed a few days and taught us the last two katas. We started our own group and meet at the local park for training every week. And even taken on a few new students, then next years some of us will be testing for our sandan. It could never have happened if the master never came out to test us and see that we were dedicated to learning the martial arts.

[Spartacus Maximus]

I don't think there are many dojos that would accept grading a student without requiring a minimum evaluation time. It does not matter how long the student trained before joining or what skill level he has. The point is that the instructor needs to take whatever time he thinks is necessary to evaluate the new student. The student should just accept this and take it as an opportunity to show what he knows and a mind willing to accept the instructor's teachings. After all it is the student who sought out the teacher for evaluation.

I heard of cases in japan and elsewhere in which a student with previous experience and a respectable level of skill changed dojo and were examined for a year at least before being given a rank or having their original rank recognized by the new sensei. During this time, the new student was closely watched and expected to train and keep up with those of his claimed level. Also evaluated was his character traits such as these:

Good self control

Humble or prone to bragging

Patience level

Respectful of seniors and fellows

Etc..