What rank to start up a dojo?

[sensei8]

Any rank!!

To be taken seriously, well, then Sandan is the preferred rank to possess when planning to open a school of the MA.

In the USA, anyone of any rank can open a school of the MA, and seeing that there's no governing body to oversee things like this, then hang out the shingle at ones discretion.

[IcemanSK]

For Kukkiwon style Taekwondoan, 4th Dan KKW is mandatory in Korea (as well as passing an instructor's course at Kukkiwon...not an easy test, BTW). Sensei8 is correct. In the US, anyone can open a school at any rank. I opened up my school under the close supervision of my GM at 2nd Dan. Now at 4th Dan, I see the value of the Korean requirement. I've learned a great deal in the time since I've opened my school that I wish I'd known before I started.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I believe PS1 and others have hit the nail on the head; if your teacher has confidence in you, and you have the competency then you are fine to instruct, the belt has become superfluous.

Saying that, however, politics can hurt you and the darker your belt colour; often the more weight you might find you have to throw around with the people it matters to.

To speak in more general terms; for any one considering the martial arts as a career, not just the OP. If you rent a space to teach out of, like a gym room or a court of some sort, than I would argue Shodan is sufficient. Customer wise; many see black belt and are reassured. Plus at Shodan you should have the power to grade relative beginners independently, and have enough of a grasp of the material for senior Kyu grades to come train with you. I hate to talk money, but if you need to pay for space you need to be commercially viable. A black belt gives that viability in many cases.

If you are looking into renting a permanent space, or buying a space, for a purpose built dojo. I would argue a minimum of Sandan, but even then I would call that a gamble. For simple business purposes you need a degree of independence; and often, in many circles this truly does not come until Yondan or Godan. Without the ability to grade people into the Ranks of Yudansha, you have no ability to grow your business that is your dojo. Your Yudansha are your growing ability; they are your most consistent customers, they are your potential instructors for running more classes, and they are the people you may need to utilise to open up more spaces.

End of the day though; I'd like to issue a warning to both sides of the coin. For those of you who might be considering helping your instructors expand; please make sure you are not being exploited. For those with students they hope will help expand your business; treat them fairly and as human beings, they will bite you back otherwise.

My sensei is a sandan and runs his own school. He has multiple yudansha with several nidans.

Now he had been a sandan for a good 10 plus years. His sensei of whom is a godan has great faith in him to know how to grade people to those ranks.

Even though he invited his sensei to our last black belt grading to watch. But it was more for him to learn what he needs to do to improve his students training. Plus he gave his opinions on those grading to nidan & shodan

[derekdadude]

I agree, Sandan is a good rank.

[hammer]

The school I go to is run by a Nidan which is no issue at all IMO. Kyokushin standards are pretty high and his knowledge and skills are easily in step with 5th degree BBs at the last school I was in.

[Nidan Melbourne]

The school I go to is run by a Nidan which is no issue at all IMO. Kyokushin standards are pretty high and his knowledge and skills are easily in step with 5th degree BBs at the last school I was in.

Thats great the your instructor is very talented and has the skills of a 5th dan. Do you think he/she will grade soon?

[hammer]

The school I go to is run by a Nidan which is no issue at all IMO. Kyokushin standards are pretty high and his knowledge and skills are easily in step with 5th degree BBs at the last school I was in.

Thats great the your instructor is very talented and has the skills of a 5th dan. Do you think he/she will grade soon?

Can't speak for his skills/experience relative to his rank by Kyokushin standards...just saying that he was as good as at least some of the 5th Dans at my previous school. Not sure when he's up for testing for Sandan but according to the syllabus he needs to have a minimum of 3 years at Nidan.

Edited July 4, 2014 by hammer

[mal103]

I started teaching on 2 nights as a Shodan when I was part of a larger club, this meant I had backup from others and all students graded under a 4th/3rd Dan with my assistance.

Some students would go to multiple nights so were trained by all Instructors, all of the students that only went to my nights were fine and obtained skills accordingly.

After a few problems I left the club and formed my own for my students but still have the others train with me as well, I did this after passing my Nidan.

I have formed close links with 2 other clubs where I now train so I have help and advice from a few senior Dan grades and several similar ranks.

All of my students are happy and gaining skills whilst enjoying my instruction, I am confident that they will prosper as I don't have the closed mind set of someone that just teaches and thinks they are great even though not standing in line in front of anyone else for years. I recently was in a session where a 7th Dan was in line whilst a 5th Dan was teaching - we never stop being students.

I will eventually grade to Sandan in about 2.5 years.

It should be said that people expect to see a Black belt running a class/club but have no idea of the Dan ranks or experience, just that they have a black belt... there is also the whole package of child protection, 1st Aid, police checks, Insurance - these aren't enforced but should be considered mandatory.

It should also be said that some can teach and some CANNOT! Just being a BB is no guarantee of being able to pass on the art effectively, you also have to be good at organising a club, managing people and being nice but firm all at the same time...

[bushido_man96]

Here is my personal experience with becoming an instructor. When I earned my first degree in the ATA, I began helping, and eventually became a trainee instructor. It was required to log 900 hours of assisting before qualifying for instructor certification camp. I met the requirements as a 2nd degree. A few years after getting certified, I took over the running of our academy. In hindsight, I was probably not mature enough at that time. But, the ATA did do a good job of preparing black belts to become instructors. I learned a lot about running and managing a class, and those lessons have stuck with me to this day.

In the TTA, I reached the rank of certified instructor when I became a 3rd degree. I had been helping teach before that, and all the prior experience helped build what I became as an instructor.

However, I don't think the TTA does nearly as good a job of training instructors, and reaching 3rd degree and being 21does not make an instructor.

[ps1]

To be taken seriously, well, then Sandan is the preferred rank .

Not picking on you specifically, Bob, but I disagree 100%. To be taken seriously you really only need three things: Professionalism, Honesty, and Value.

As long as a person coming in the school recognizes it to be a safe, fun, clean, professional atmosphere, they will be comfortable.

As long as you are honest about your training and the training you provide, they will value it.

As long as they see value in the training you provide, they will pay for it.

Rank is quite meaningless to the layperson. Heck, to most people who've been training long enough to have significant rank, it's meaningless. We all understand that different people seem to have different ranks and there's no real standardization across the board. It's just confusing to people who aren't in that specific art.

What the average person sees is you, as whatever rank, teaching and says to themselves, "Well, I guess this person is allowed to teach at rank x." Beyond that, they don't care at all.