Toe kicks

[Spartacus Maximus]

In my dojo kicks are done with the toes squeezed together and the big toe as the weapon of impact. We are taught this way from the start and expected to use it to break a single board to be granted shodan. Just training to hold the toes properly took me over seven months! Hardening my toes enough to kick is another thing.

How many here practise or teach this? Uechi ryu is the only one to still teach this method as well as some Chinese styles. According to my sensei it used to be the way on Okinawa but is now rare.

[sensei8]

First of all...Welcome to KF; glad you're here!!

I'm in an Okinawan art myself, but not in a Okinawan MA that utilizes the big toe in the fashion that you're describing. I've crossed trained with a lot of Uechi-ryu karateka's, and in that, I've seen them conditioning their big toe, and I just grimace in astonishment because I'm thinking..."That's got to hurt something fierce in the early conditioning stages".

Hopefully, some KF member can shine some light on it for you.

[Spartacus Maximus]

My sensei is an okinawan who started in his early teens. He told me that method was the only way taught regardless of style. That was his answer to my question if it was a specialty of uechi ryu. He also said that using the ball of the foot is a relatively recent way adapted for sparring (sport karate)

Hardening any body part is painful at first but even more for a sensitive one like the big toe. I have been lightly poked by sensei's kick and it left a mark! There is no doubt in my mind that feet like his a fearsome weapons.

I hope I can get more replies to get an idea of how many others learn this old style of kicking. From what I could gather online it is shared by some Chinese styles. I wonder which ones

[Nidan Melbourne]

I havent heard of this way of kicking before but i am interest to hear as well what people say

[Spartacus Maximus]

I first heard of it online in an article but can't remember what site as it was years ago. Was always interested and wished I was taught how to do it. Never tried on my own because I was afraid to stupidly injure myself. I saw videos of it and witnessed it in Okinawa before finding my current teacher who teaches it as the standard method. I saw a man kick a hole in can with that toe kick. Scary stuff if you imagine being on the receiving end! Both front kicks and roundhouse kicks are done with toes. Feels like getting jabbed with a sharp stick. Common targets are the solar plexus(highest target), liver and bladder area. Also many points on the thigh and legs

[GojuRyu Bahrain]

hi Spartacus,

I have practiced this way of kicking while doing Uechi Ryu. Conditioning was started on half acar tire fixed on the wall. We started with gentle pokes and increased intensity over months. Also, jogging (barefoot) with the toes in this position helps strengthening the muscles needed to make the toe/foot stabil upon impact. My Goju Ryu Sensei also told us that toe kicks were state-of-the-art in the old days before tournament Karate.

Nowadays, in colder climates i would recommend sturdy boots to achieve a similar effect

[Spartacus Maximus]

Thanks Goju.

Most of the guys I met in Okinawa were from uechi ryu. My sensei also practise this style before settling finally on shorin ryu. He is over sixty years old and when he was in his teens and twenties all Okinawa ryuha trained toe kicks.

The way I am being taught is to always have the toes together in everything so that eventually it becomes the natural position. Pushing the toes into a soft target like a hard foam gym mat is the next step. After that he recommends gradually hitting the toes with the same type of board used for breaking.

I have seen uechi ryu people use a training tool that looks like a cricket bat and know of special kicking types of makiwara

[sensei8]

Both our Soke and Dai-Soke were born/raised in Okinawa [Dai-Soke was Soke's student], and we've never been trained in the toe kick. Possibly, as natural as it might've been in the old days, neither of them ever spoke towards that subject, for one reason or another.

Training any part of ones body at first isn't going to be a blast until conditioning starts to settle in, and of course, afterwards, continued conditioning is then a blast. Slow and steady; training maxims!

[Wastelander]

Our system includes tsumasaki-geri (toe-tip kick), but we don't emphasize it much. Chibana Chosin, the founder of our style, actually cracked a wall in his dojo with it, at one point. As has been mentioned, it used to be the primary method of kicking with front kicks and roundhouse kicks. My Sensei can use them pretty effectively to the body--it feels like you're being stabbed.

In addition to the Uechi-Ryu method, and the Shorin-Ryu method, I have seen some Goju-Ryu karateka working it. Garry Lever Sensei has a video, somewhere, showing him toe-kicking a medicine ball propped against a wall. Of course, Chinese arts, and Savate, wear shoes and make liberal use of toe-tip kicks. Outside of that, UFC fighters Katsunori Kikuno and Erick Silva have been known to use toe-tip kicks to the body pretty effectively.

I have a hard time with them, so as much as I would like to be able to use them, I can't make much progress. I've damaged the big toes on both my feet so severely that even kicking with the ball of the foot hurts quite a bit. This damage also makes it very difficult to bend my toes properly for the Uechi method of toe kicking. My second toe is also long enough that crossing it over my big toe for support for the Shorin method causes the nail of my big toe to cut open the bottom of my second toe.

[sensei8]

Oh, please don't hate me for my question, please...

How often will one use their taught MA skills? Moreover, how often will one be not wearing shoes if called upon to use said MA skills at the moments notice, so that they can use the toe-kick?

Ok...I'll go back to my corner...bag over my head!