Stopping at Brown belt

[wagnerk]

This is funny to me as when I was working up the ranks, I actually broke down my goals very similar to that...

Small goals: this was every belt.

Medium goal: to get to brown belt.

Long term goal: To get black.

Brown belt for me would have been a great place to stop if I couldn't training anymore. And it may be the same for a lot of other people.

One thing that I did notice that the training jumped from 4th Kyu to 3rd kyu (there was a steeper learning curving when you get to 3rd Kyu and above, then same thing happened at 4th Gup to 3rd Gup) and I think that is what also puts a lot of people off.

[Zaine]

One thing that I did notice that the training jumped from 4th Kyu to 3rd kyu (there was a steeper learning curving when you get to 3rd Kyu and above, then same thing happened at 4th Gup to 3rd Gup) and I think that is what also puts a lot of people off.

I noticed something similar in my training. Maybe it's the final weeding process of most instructors? Maybe it's a common perception thing? I'm more inclined to go with the former.

[sensei8]

This is funny to me as when I was working up the ranks, I actually broke down my goals very similar to that...

Small goals: this was every belt.

Medium goal: to get to brown belt.

Long term goal: To get black.

Brown belt for me would have been a great place to stop if I couldn't training anymore. And it may be the same for a lot of other people.

One thing that I did notice that the training jumped from 4th Kyu to 3rd kyu (there was a steeper learning curving when you get to 3rd Kyu and above, then same thing happened at 4th Gup to 3rd Gup) and I think that is what also puts a lot of people off.

To the bold type above...

I surely hope that the training is a steeper learning curve from one rank to rank, no matter the rank. For those who have been put off because of the steeper training, well, I'd have it no other way; CHALLENGE ME!!

But, I too, noticed the same thing way back then. Didn't shock me, unsettled me at first because I knew it would, but knowing what to expect isn't the same thing as actually experiencing it for real.

[Hawkmoon]

When I started MA, I wanted to train, train hard and move up the ranks because it was what I thought was expected!

So I graded at every interval I was allowed to and started what I later realized was a mad dash to Shodan!

When I reached 3rd Kyu, I realized just how close I was to Shodan, and just how inexperienced I was to be so close to '1st grade' in such a short time, must be wrong!

How could I stand in a dojo with a BB on when only a few years back I walked in and was essentially unable to breath correctly.

I was in a bad place to be, I felt that I would disrespect or otherwise dishonor the club etc IF I carried on at this pace! so I decided then to stop at 1st kyu, learn the art and be the best I could be.

I was at this time in my life starting a new family and new home. So I planned to slow right down, at 1st kyu, do 'life' and study MA, what actually happen felt like an over night thing, I wasn't training at all!

Why did I stop, well the story (sorry for that) above suggests life was the culprit, well to a degree maybe, but looking back and well I was happy at Brown belt 'it was close enough'.

[bushido_man96]

Interesting post.

I have a different take.

At brown belt I think most people think it's close enough.

These folks aren't lifelong practitioners and are in it only for the belt.

And brown belt sounds pretty good. Know what I mean?

I absolutely see your point. I see your point as an extension of mine, however. "Brown belt is close enough (I don't need to, don't want to....go farther)." Thanks for that insight!

I've seen this happen, and I've also seen some quit at recommended black belt level, and some that quit after earning their full first dan. Like they've "made it," or something like that. Its disappointing, because what they could have done if they stayed with it. But, its their choice.

To that end I still get asked by the uninformed: Aren't you done yet? Or: Aren't you finished, yet?

Nope, far from it.

I see this a lot, too. Many don't realize that its a lifelong committment to most of us. I think a lot of this comes from the Western view of sports, how most people are done with sports after high school. Some go on to college, and even fewer make it to the pro ranks. I think it gets thought of like that, like there is an end to it. I think that is a common perception, anyway.

[devil dog]

In my experience those that quit after achieving brown belt or Ikkyu, quit for two reasons when asked. One they do not feel that they can pass the Shodan test or feel that it gets too hard to train for the test.

We have our student candidates perform the entire curicullum from Hachikyu to Shodan, all kata, bunkai, oyo bunkai, kumite (yakusoku, ippon, sanbon, and Jiyu with 10 students of the same rank and 10 yudansha), tegumi, tuite, self defense, kihon, terminology, and history of the art. They have to write an essay for acceptance to test and they have to teach on their own, twice while their instructor scrutinizes them and once for the board of instructors.

This all takes two days of testing. Most of my students that quit, when asked, they stated that they did not feel that they would ever be prepared and the others said they just thought it would be too hard to train for this.

Personally this does them and the MA community a favor. The MA is all about overcoming obstacles and meeting challenges. If they do not have it in them to meet the challenge and over come their fear then they were never meant to be a Yudansha or to teach and pass on the art.

However in my experience most students do not quit at brown belt but rather at the lower ranks or after they acheive their Shodan.

I think that the MA community has put so much hoopla in becoming a Shodan that they forgot to tell students that this is nothing more than the beginning of understanding the art.

Most people look at Shodan as if it were the ultimate test and the pinnacle of achievement rather than just another rank in the life long pursuit of perfection of onesself.

In my experience Shodan is the number one drop out grade not Ikkyu. I believe this is because we have made becoming a black belt the end all to everything. The ones that stay are surprised to see there is a lot more to learn and the studies go more indepth than the mudansha ranks. The ones that don't, sadly leave feeling like they got the best out of the art and either quit all together thinking they have achieved some momentous goal or begin a new art.

It always makes me laugh to see those that have had training in one or more arts. 95% of the time there last rank was Shodan. These are the people that then go out and make their own art because they are ranked in two or more and think they are now an expert. Little do they know they have only scratched the surface of any of the arts that they have studied.

This is why we stress that Shodan is no more than another stepping stone along the path of the way and not an ultimate goal.

Don't get me wrong Shodan is an achievement but it's not what everyone makes it out to be.

Some even quit because they thought somehow they were going to become bullet proof and be able to jump over buildings and fight off hoards of opponents when they reached Shodan. When they figure out that they have only just begun they get discouraged and quit.

[Nidan Melbourne]

I know many people who have quit at brown belt and they have told me one reason or another. But in they way they told me why they stopped isn't their true reason and they don't want to tell me because i already attained my black belt.

I feel like those who stop (not due to financial, physical, psychological or moving away) stop because they are scared of reaching black belt and that they won't learn anything else, or because it would be so much more responsibility for them to have.

Also i have seen people stop at brown belt because they thought it was getting too hard and that they would fail the grading to black belt. But in reality for those who are at the brown belt level are usually just refining the techniques you know (as you should usually know by now all the techniques with the exception of maybe one or two moves).

That small hurdle of a grading for black belt can derail so many people because of having completed their goal and they never planned on what to do after that.

I know I still have a lot to learn in my style (1 kata left and a few things for pre-arranged sparring), and to even more refine my techniques which would mean i waste less energy. But I want to learn absolutely everything from other styles [just like a sponge that absorbs everything]. So my drive to continue with MA is to learn everything that i can possible.

I believe to keep them going is to reinforce them positively that they continue to learn no matter what they're rank and that reaching the black belt is never the end! When in reality it is the beginning.

I get why some students spend a long time on their 1st kyu prior to grading because they don't feel ready. But to me that makes it a whole lot worse, because the person won't be able to combat the fear. Obviously you do still need the time on the mat to get that experience to be ready.

When I reached my shodan-ho I felt like king of the world because i reached my goal. But i had a moment (and still feel it) when i attained my Shodan that I feel like a white belt learning new things about techniques that i've done thousands upon thousands of times and things that i have learnt yet. Which in a way does scare me but yet also excites me.

[mal103]

In my experience those that quit after achieving brown belt or Ikkyu, quit for two reasons when asked. One they do not feel that they can pass the Shodan test or feel that it gets too hard to train for the test.

We have our student candidates perform the entire curicullum from Hachikyu to Shodan, all kata, bunkai, oyo bunkai, kumite (yakusoku, ippon, sanbon, and Jiyu with 10 students of the same rank and 10 yudansha), tegumi, tuite, self defense, kihon, terminology, and history of the art. They have to write an essay for acceptance to test and they have to teach on their own, twice while their instructor scrutinizes them and once for the board of instructors.

This all takes two days of testing. Most of my students that quit, when asked, they stated that they did not feel that they would ever be prepared and the others said they just thought it would be too hard to train for this.

Personally this does them and the MA community a favor. The MA is all about overcoming obstacles and meeting challenges. If they do not have it in them to meet the challenge and over come their fear then they were never meant to be a Yudansha or to teach and pass on the art.

However in my experience most students do not quit at brown belt but rather at the lower ranks or after they acheive their Shodan.

I think that the MA community has put so much hoopla in becoming a Shodan that they forgot to tell students that this is nothing more than the beginning of understanding the art.

Most people look at Shodan as if it were the ultimate test and the pinnacle of achievement rather than just another rank in the life long pursuit of perfection of onesself.

In my experience Shodan is the number one drop out grade not Ikkyu. I believe this is because we have made becoming a black belt the end all to everything. The ones that stay are surprised to see there is a lot more to learn and the studies go more indepth than the mudansha ranks. The ones that don't, sadly leave feeling like they got the best out of the art and either quit all together thinking they have achieved some momentous goal or begin a new art.

It always makes me laugh to see those that have had training in one or more arts. 95% of the time there last rank was Shodan. These are the people that then go out and make their own art because they are ranked in two or more and think they are now an expert. Little do they know they have only scratched the surface of any of the arts that they have studied.

This is why we stress that Shodan is no more than another stepping stone along the path of the way and not an ultimate goal.

Don't get me wrong Shodan is an achievement but it's not what everyone makes it out to be.

Some even quit because they thought somehow they were going to become bullet proof and be able to jump over buildings and fight off hoards of opponents when they reached Shodan. When they figure out that they have only just begun they get discouraged and quit.

This should be printed out and handed to all students - perfect perception!

[tallgeese]

Interesting. It's the first time I've ever considered this. I've not known too many people in any art to walk away that close. I've seen tons and tons of beginners walk away, a pretty high number of intermediate students who got drug away, a handful of more advanced but really by the time people get to brown they are really (or should be anyway) moving towards that expert level of understanding. It's hard to get those people away. Heck, more people leave after achieving black belt due to achieving what they set out to do. But that's just my perspective.

From a BJJ standpoint, brown belts hardly ever, I mean next to NEVER walk away.

[ShoriKid]

I've only had one student get close and not reach for shodan. They were stuck at 3rd or 2nd kyu, I honestly can't recall at this point. When I say "stuck" I mean that they had not been promoted in about 2 years. The reason wasn't so much physical skill. He was strong, fairly well conditioned and when he would listen, he performed well. However, there was trouble with his maturity level. He sought approval at every turn and when given the opportunity to teach whatever he wanted in class, where PittbullJudoka and I would be evaluating his ability while participating, he always sought to pull us back into teaching. Not asking for assistance or clarification on a point, but trying to hand off the lesson. The approval was sought through what really read as false modesty, very loudly expressed to draw the eyes of the whole class or "frustration" to get that pat on the shoulder and encouragement. This was a from a man in his early 30s. We talked to him about this and I think he got frustrated because he wasn't being promoted quickly enough. It was a very odd situation to me.

I've seen a few quit in other schools who were pulled away by life, work/family etc. There have been a couple who I've spoken with that "I could have made black belt" sort of comes up in the talk about martial arts. If you never test, you could have made it, the world will never know.

My instructor told me, for the first time during my green belt test, that half of students drop out by green belt. That was where things started getting difficult. Out of those left, more than half left quit by brown belt. And of those, maybe half survive to black belt because of the difficulty of training.