Blackbelts that can't....

[cheesefrysamurai]

We all have our limitations. I fully understand that. But how are they normally handled?

For instance an older or overweight student joins the ranks. They aren't as flexible or as fast. Realistically there will be techniques that they will just not be able to do, spinning back kicks, high kick, explosive ground movements etc.

I'm NOT looking for answers like "they should choose an art that best suits their limitations" OR "What are their goals"

Im realistically talking about that student walking into Taekwondo or Aikido school. - for arguments sake, Lots of heart, attends religiously, pretty proficient at most material.

What do you do? Can you promote someone to teacher rank who can't effectively perform every technique?

thanks

[andym]

Teaching and holding a grade to teach are two different things. Where a section of a syllabus cannot be performed by a student, due to some physical limitations - I have no problem with alternatives used to get that grade or even just grading then without that part. As to teaching, more tricky. Within their club environment, were others are available to cover the missing parts - again not an issue. But, should this person be allowed to have their own club ? Teach or more aptly, coach that section they have no real experience of.... this is a problem area.

[sensei8]

Not all BB can teach!!

Black belts that can't?! Why can't they? Was it because they never possessed the abilities to begin with, or, is it because the abilities they once possessed aren't as sharp as they use to be? A answer that merits both a definitive and sensitive response will be required here.

I won't promote said BB to the role of teaching/Sensei within my dojo. To do so isn't conducive to the air of learning; students will suffer if I do so. Technical abilities must be considered, they're important, but being able to teach a stick to be more than a stick while it's still just a stick, takes a special person. Some teaching abilities just can't be taught, they're born with that/them. Weigh them, and then go from there.

Possession of rank won't guarantee being a sensei at my dojo, either. I know many solid karateka's on the floor, but in the role of sensei, no way, no how, and forget that!! Their temperance is askew; it destroys the conduciveness that provides students the abilities to learn the MA.

My gut feeling won't prohibit one of my Dan rank students from opening their own dojo. Free society allows that. Free enterprise allows that. If I later decide that I was wrong, then it's my students lose as well as mine. However, I haven't been wrong thus far!!

The floor is my barometer for determining if any Dan ranked student of mine is "QUALIFIED" to be called a "Sensei". Either one can or one can't!! I can't afford to get that decision wrong for all concerned.

Do I demote someone from the teaching ranks if their physically incapable to execute any said technique for whatever the reason's may or may not be?

NO!!

If so, then I should start with myself. I'm 56 years old and getting older each year. For example, I've not been able to do the big jumping technique found in Unsu since I was a Rokudan, and almost a Nanadan. I injured my right knee when I was a JBB. The toll of the years caught up with me, and the landing portion isn't a possibility. Yes, I can do it, but the aftermath isn't a pretty sight to behold, or to live through.

Outside of that, if a Sensei of mine still maintains other productive skills as a teacher of the MA, then who am I too say that their teaching days are over? I'm not that person, nor do I want to be. Technical skills are important, but over the years, their "teaching" value is still invaluable for all concerned. Their knowledge AND experience are of a teaching commodity that can't be denied and/or refused on the floor.

Should've my Dai-Soke stripped me of my Kyoshi title when I started to show signs of debilitation? No! And he didn't because he still saw that there was more than mere passing value within me. A thoroughbred is still of value after their racing days are behind them when their finally put out to stud. If I'm no longer that stud on the floor, then there's value within me because of the knowledge and experience that I possess. Our Soke filled in the role of Advisor, after he retired, with distinguished honor up to the moment he passed away.

Does a time come when I or one of my sensei's have to bow off the floor all together for all concerned? YES!! I love to play, but there's time when I won't be able to play on the floor anymore. Hopefully I'll have enough about me to recognize that moment when that moment is before me.

In short...Those who never had it, never will!!

Imho!!

[IcemanSK]

Not all BB can teach!!

Black belts that can't?! Why can't they? Was it because they never possessed the abilities to begin with, or, is it because the abilities they once possessed aren't as sharp as they use to be? A answer that merits both a definitive and sensitive response will be required here.

I won't promote said BB to the role of teaching/Sensei within my dojo. To do so isn't conducive to the air of learning; students will suffer if I do so. Technical abilities must be considered, they're important, but being able to teach a stick to be more than a stick while it's still just a stick, takes a special person. Some teaching abilities just can't be taught, they're born with that/them. Weigh them, and then go from there.

Possession of rank won't guarantee being a sensei at my dojo, either. I know many solid karateka's on the floor, but in the role of sensei, no way, no how, and forget that!! Their temperance is askew; it destroys the conduciveness that provides students the abilities to learn the MA.

My gut feeling won't prohibit one of my Dan rank students from opening their own dojo. Free society allows that. Free enterprise allows that. If I later decide that I was wrong, then it's my students lose as well as mine. However, I haven't been wrong thus far!!

The floor is my barometer for determining if any Dan ranked student of mine is "QUALIFIED" to be called a "Sensei". Either one can or one can't!! I can't afford to get that decision wrong for all concerned.

Do I demote someone from the teaching ranks if their physically incapable to execute any said technique for whatever the reason's may or may not be?

NO!!

If so, then I should start with myself. I'm 56 years old and getting older each year. For example, I've not been able to do the big jumping technique found in Unsu since I was a Rokudan, and almost a Nanadan. I injured my right knee when I was a JBB. The toll of the years caught up with me, and the landing portion isn't a possibility. Yes, I can do it, but the aftermath isn't a pretty sight to behold, or to live through.

Outside of that, if a Sensei of mine still maintains other productive skills as a teacher of the MA, then who am I too say that their teaching days are over? I'm not that person, nor do I want to be. Technical skills are important, but over the years, their "teaching" value is still invaluable for all concerned. Their knowledge AND experience are of a teaching commodity that can't be denied and/or refused on the floor.

Should've my Dai-Soke stripped me of my Kyoshi title when I started to show signs of debilitation? No! And he didn't because he still saw that there was more than mere passing value within me. A thoroughbred is still of value after their racing days are behind them when their finally put out to stud. If I'm no longer that stud on the floor, then there's value within me because of the knowledge and experience that I possess. Our Soke filled in the role of Advisor, after he retired, with distinguished honor up to the moment he passed away.

Does a time come when I or one of my sensei's have to bow off the floor all together for all concerned? YES!! I love to play, but there's time when I won't be able to play on the floor anymore. Hopefully I'll have enough about me to recognize that moment when that moment is before me.

In short...Those who never had it, never will!!

Imho!!

Well said!

[Archimoto]

I must confess that I am a major foosball nut. I can't get enough of it and have played in numerous tournaments. I'm actually pretty good. One of my fondest memories is of a road trip with my college mates and somewhere along the way we ended up in a match with a guy who had no arms. He had both arms amputated at the elbow. To make a long story less long...he kicked our rears big time!

As with most things, I think it's best to measure a man by what he CAN do, rather than what he can't. Know what I'm say'n?

I think this applies to black belts as well...

[Nidan Melbourne]

I am overweight and I teach. There only things i can't do are head kicks and hook kicks due to having bad knees (not due to my weight) and not being flexible enough.

But I still do them to the best of MY ability and not others expectations of them.

My sensei, sempai's and other students all recognize that i can't do head kicks and that they do try and help me do them but i still have an array of kicks that i can still do.

in terms of teaching my sensei doesn't mind if i can't do head kicks because he knows i can talk to the students about the difference between a jodan mawashi geri and a chudan mawashi geri. But when i have to teach people the reverse roundhouse kick (at my dojo its called ushiro mawashi geri) i usually have an assistant to help demonstrate. Otherwise every other single technique i am able to do well

[bushido_man96]

Im realistically talking about that student walking into Taekwondo or Aikido school. - for arguments sake, Lots of heart, attends religiously, pretty proficient at most material.

What do you do? Can you promote someone to teacher rank who can't effectively perform every technique?

thanks

Sure you can. The Martial Arts is a personal journey that is often taken with many friends along the way. Not all can do the same things equally. What is important is that as the student learns along the way, and realizes what his/her strengths and weaknesses are, they learn to improve on the weaknesses as much as possible, and tweak everything along the way for the way they do things.

Learning is one thing. But, when someone starts to learn themself, and makes things work for the way they are, using proper technique and body mechanics, then they have really turned a corner. There is no reason why a person like this can't be a black belt in their chosen style.

[kensei]

Sure you can. The Martial Arts is a personal journey that is often taken with many friends along the way. Not all can do the same things equally. What is important is that as the student learns along the way, and realizes what his/her strengths and weaknesses are, they learn to improve on the weaknesses as much as possible, and tweak everything along the way for the way they do things.

Very well said!

Martial arts are not Sports! I see LOTS of sport Karate and Jiu Jitsu guys that are black belts that could not run a class well and to be frank...not nice people as well. The testing for rank should also be based on minimum technical levels along with an understanding that this is a personal journey. the most inspirational people I have trained with are a little girl that has multiple FAS symptoms and comes out and trains every week with a smile on her face and more enthusiasm than most adults have.

The other one was a guy with one arm that I trained with in Judo, the dude was CRAZY good and only had one arm! Because he had one arm one instructor would not teach him or train with him. When he graded for Shodan (just after me) He was failed by the instructors the first time because the instructor that was biased would not pass him. The next tournament that we went to he was in a division with four guys, he beat all four with Ippon....all friggin four! Then he was given permission to grade again and he asked that his partner be a Black belt not one of the others grading for shodan, the instructor stood up (youngish tournament star) and the funniest thing was he tossed this Yondan around with one arm like the guy was a throwing dummy. Sweeps with one arm and he even did a perfect series of pins on the guy. As it turned out the one armed guy almost failed again, the Yondan was the vote against and the other four were for, one on the fence. You needed 3/4 of the votes to pass, the guy on the fence was the Yondans senior (all this is what I was told second hand) and the guy went against his junior and voted for the Shodan to go to the one armed fighter. The next testing....the Yondan was absent...and the next.

Point being it does not matter what is thrown in front of you on your personal journey through martial arts, its your hurdle and if you handle them then you should grade and pass. If you are a super athletic guy that works just hard enough to maintain, I may not pass you over the older guy that has a family and busts his back side every class and has issues with flexibility and fitness. its about the personal journey!

[bushido_man96]

If so, then I should start with myself. I'm 56 years old and getting older each year. For example, I've not been able to do the big jumping technique found in Unsu since I was a Rokudan, and almost a Nanadan. I injured my right knee when I was a JBB. The toll of the years caught up with me, and the landing portion isn't a possibility. Yes, I can do it, but the aftermath isn't a pretty sight to behold, or to live through.

Outside of that, if a Sensei of mine still maintains other productive skills as a teacher of the MA, then who am I too say that their teaching days are over? I'm not that person, nor do I want to be. Technical skills are important, but over the years, their "teaching" value is still invaluable for all concerned. Their knowledge AND experience are of a teaching commodity that can't be denied and/or refused on the floor.

I think that a good instructor, even after physical attributes begin to deteriorate, can use other younger, more athletic students around them to demonstrate the techniques that they can't quite perform anymore. A good instructor will be able to take a good senior student and use them as a visual aid in classes.

Martial arts are not Sports!

I agree that not all MAs are sports. But, I do think that they should be an athletic endeavor, and treated as such. I do agree with your statements about the personal journey, and how it is likely that not everyone will be judged the same, because each journey is personal. Part of the journey should the personal improvement that comes with the physical aspect, as much as anything else. As instructors, its our job to know our students, know what each is capable of, and where the improvements are showing up. Those things, in my opinion, are what make good instructors.

[ps1]

The following quote about promotions comes from Henry Aikins. He is the 3rd American Black Belt under Master Rickson Gracie. In the BJJ realm, he's a legend and part of what we call the Dirty Dozen (1st 12 Americans promoted to Black Belt in BJJ). He posted this on his FaceBook page a while back and I save it for anytime this question comes up. Feel free to insert the name of your martial art anywhere he says "Jiu-Jitsu" or "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu":

Henry Akins: What does a belt in Jiu-Jitsu mean? I've been asked some form of this question a lot lately. Like one person told me they did not feel they deserved the belt they were given, another person asked me what is the difference between a blue and purple belt and had someone else say they are a blue belt but should be a purple... I'm sure many of you have heard something similar.

The truth is: THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL STANDARD IN JIU-JITSU FOR WHAT ANY BELT IS! It is completely based on your instructor and even with the same instructor, instructors hold different students to different standards.

Sometimes these standards are based on performance like placing well in tournaments or if someone is able to submit a certain level of their training partners in training. Sometimes the standards are based on having a certain level of knowledge so a test might be given. Sometimes the standard is based on the amount of classes attended assuming that after a person has attended a certain amount of classes then they should have a certain level of knowledge.

One of the experiences I had that really made me start to think about what a belt means and who deserves one was after a brown belt test done by Rickson for 8 guys probably around 2008-2009. Rickson rewarded all 8 guys with their brown belts even though I was there and helping to grade and I felt about half the guys failed the test. Afterward I asked him why he gave the belts to one of the guys that I thought had failed and he told me this. This guy was 50 years old had been training consistently for years once a week, every Saturday. He would never achieve the level of world champion in any belt but it doesn't mean he does not deserve to get promoted for his persistence and dedication. This was the first time it really dawned on me that the belt is not even based on performance and level or knowledge. This was a guy that was really strong, and tough, was excellent at making tiny adjustments to defend so he was tough to tap out but had almost no offense at all. He didn't have a huge arsenal of techniques and wasn't necessarily smooth at all either, what I thought would kind of be the standards for a brown belt, those were the standards I felt I was held to. Rickson however made me realize not everyone has the potential to reach the same level but everyone has the potential to become a black belt with hard work, persistence and dedication.

If you think about it, even within a certain school where everyone was promoted by the same instructor, even among guys with the same belt and stripes no one is ever of equal skill level and training level. Some guys are faster, some guys are stronger, some guys are heavier, some guys have great guards some have great defense, some guys have great mounts or cross-sides, but even with twins their skill level and performance will be different.

So my message to you all is do not worry about the color of your belt, focus on learning and growing. The most important thing is you are improving as a person and a martial artist, let go of your ego and focus on becoming more efficient with the techniques of Jiu-Jitsu, if you put the time in the belts will all eventually come."