Define mcdojo

[mal103]

Making a little money is a goal of most Dojo's/clubs/associations, some do get greedy but nobody wants to fund things out of their own pocket so will normally need to make a profit. The thing I don't like is when they add several extra jumps/grades/belts to get more grading fees out of the students for no real benefit to their MA.

I think the main point for mcdojos are standards, I have seen some videos and witnessed a couple of Dojo's that were plainly dreadful and should have been ashamed of themselves, these will do more harm to MA as people will get a bad impression of today's MA.

If a senior well respected Sensei contacted us and said he would like to visit and watch our lessons then I would have no problem with this, even though I would make sure our best students were in attendance

If I was part of a mcdojo then this concept would scare the life out of me...

Makes you wonder when you hear of "Grand-Masters" who absolutely forbid their students from training anywhere else?

[andym]

The key thing I've found to identify a group as 'McDojo' is the active promotion or advertising for instructors among the lower grade students. Training students, who lack the skill in the performance of techniques, to teach those techniques . Illustrating and perpetuating the total lack of depth and quality associated with 'McDojos'. The worst case example we have here in GB. Job adverts for instructors - NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY ! I kid you not. This is the group i seem to get in trouble about, when I write about them...so, no names no pack drill.

[sensei8]

To me,

A McDojo is one who puts everything before the betterment of the MA and their students!!

[Safroot]

To me,

A McDojo is one who puts everything before the betterment of the MA and their students!!

Solid post and to the point

[ninjanurse]

Making a little money is a goal of most Dojo's/clubs/associations, some do get greedy but nobody wants to fund things out of their own pocket so will normally need to make a profit. The thing I don't like is when they add several extra jumps/grades/belts to get more grading fees out of the students for no real benefit to their MA.

I think the main point for mcdojos are standards, I have seen some videos and witnessed a couple of Dojo's that were plainly dreadful and should have been ashamed of themselves, these will do more harm to MA as people will get a bad impression of today's MA.

If a senior well respected Sensei contacted us and said he would like to visit and watch our lessons then I would have no problem with this, even though I would make sure our best students were in attendance

If I was part of a mcdojo then this concept would scare the life out of me...

Makes you wonder when you hear of "Grand-Masters" who absolutely forbid their students from training anywhere else?

Agreed.

Joined an association once that forbid training outside their schools. The lack of depth of his students and instructors, their obvious lack of tehnique,

and the rapid promotion of students (Black belt within 12-18months)who paid extra for an "instructors program" were other red flags that spelled McDojo. It bothered me then and it still bothers me today that his students are getting gypped out of a real martial arts education-not to mention the impact on the image of martial arts as a whole.

Not all schools that have instructor programs or extra belts to earn are McDojo's-it's the content & the standards that are important.

[ps1]

At my school, I am on contract.

We have a belt testing about every 2 months, except at times during the summer, when things slow down a bit.

We pay for the testings.

These things alone don't make a McDojo. Contracts don't automatically mean McDojo, either. Contracts are an easy way for an instructor to not have to be the guy who runs down checks every month from all the students. He just has to worry about teaching.

There are a lot of people who don't like contracts in the Martial Arts. For some reason, monthly services like cell phones get a pass, but not the Martial Arts. Contracts are not a bad thing. Take into account the school as a whole when considering what the school is.

I agree 100%. I hated contracts until I started running a school. Most professional instructors do this for a few reasons:

1. Steady and dependent cash flow: Paying bills, planning marketing, and paychecks are only possible with a steady cash flow.

2. Steady Paycheck: Most instructors double as the school owner too. I think it's pretty fair of a person to want to know how much they will make from month to month. Look at your own situations. How would you like it if your workplace randomly handed out paychecks? This month, you get $200...next month nothing... the third month you get $5000.

3. Your instruction is better because of it. If an instructor has to constantly chase down checks from the non-payers...and I know I was shocked at how many people "forget" to pay...he is spending his time and energy focusing on that task and not on training you. When an instructor has a system set up for automatic payments, he spends more time working on class setup and less on chasing people down.

4. Contracts are a standard part of society. I don't know why some people freak out when a martial artist does it. I have a contract for the private school my daughter attends. If I pull her out today...I'm paying till Fall. I have a contract on my house payments...It's called a mortgage. Try and buy a house and just say, "I'm not signing anything."

I only have problems with contracts under the following conditions:

1. They guarantee a certain rank in a certain time period

2. They have unreasonable exit clauses. My exit clause has sections for moving more than 25 miles away and serious injuries or change of heart in the first 30 days.

I also don't think it's bad for an academy to make money. I want my academy to make money. That means my instructor is able to focus on me instead of worrying about his second job or whether he'll make his mortgage payment this month.

The McDojo is characterized by "do anything" marketing tactics and low rank standards. On top of that they also tend to do the same things that good schools do: contracts, charge for testing, in school parties, retention programs ect...

In other words, "You don't get what you're paying for."

To me, "McDojo" is synonymous with "fraud." They are the slimy car dealer of the martial arts world. They will tell you anything to get you in the door and take your money, even if what they tell you isn't true. They're playing the odds that you won't bother complaining.

I've had countless people call me asking for kickboxing. I own an BJJ academy. I have been given the advice by some "experts" that you should always say you have what they're looking for because people don't know the difference. That would be the action of a McDojo.

Instead, I do this:

"No I don't have a kickboxing program. We teach Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at the academy. Were you looking for kickboxing specifically?"

IF YES: "Ok, no problem. Let me give you the number of Ryan down the street. He's the best Kickboxing guy I know."

IF NO: "Ok. Let me tell you a little about jiu-jitsu. You may be interested."

Simple...I find the truth is 100 times more powerful than any lie. I have done this no less than 10 times and every time the person chose me because they appreciated my honesty. McDojos don't do that.

McDojos:

- Anything to get you in the door

- Don't care about your skill

To me, those two things make it a McDojo.

[sensei8]

At my school, I am on contract.

We have a belt testing about every 2 months, except at times during the summer, when things slow down a bit.

We pay for the testings.

These things alone don't make a McDojo. Contracts don't automatically mean McDojo, either. Contracts are an easy way for an instructor to not have to be the guy who runs down checks every month from all the students. He just has to worry about teaching.

There are a lot of people who don't like contracts in the Martial Arts. For some reason, monthly services like cell phones get a pass, but not the Martial Arts. Contracts are not a bad thing. Take into account the school as a whole when considering what the school is.

I agree 100%. I hated contracts until I started running a school. Most professional instructors do this for a few reasons:

1. Steady and dependent cash flow: Paying bills, planning marketing, and paychecks are only possible with a steady cash flow.

2. Steady Paycheck: Most instructors double as the school owner too. I think it's pretty fair of a person to want to know how much they will make from month to month. Look at your own situations. How would you like it if your workplace randomly handed out paychecks? This month, you get $200...next month nothing... the third month you get $5000.

3. Your instruction is better because of it. If an instructor has to constantly chase down checks from the non-payers...and I know I was shocked at how many people "forget" to pay...he is spending his time and energy focusing on that task and not on training you. When an instructor has a system set up for automatic payments, he spends more time working on class setup and less on chasing people down.

4. Contracts are a standard part of society. I don't know why some people freak out when a martial artist does it. I have a contract for the private school my daughter attends. If I pull her out today...I'm paying till Fall. I have a contract on my house payments...It's called a mortgage. Try and buy a house and just say, "I'm not signing anything."

I only have problems with contracts under the following conditions:

1. They guarantee a certain rank in a certain time period

2. They have unreasonable exit clauses. My exit clause has sections for moving more than 25 miles away and serious injuries or change of heart in the first 30 days.

I also don't think it's bad for an academy to make money. I want my academy to make money. That means my instructor is able to focus on me instead of worrying about his second job or whether he'll make his mortgage payment this month.

The McDojo is characterized by "do anything" marketing tactics and low rank standards. On top of that they also tend to do the same things that good schools do: contracts, charge for testing, in school parties, retention programs ect...

In other words, "You don't get what you're paying for."

To me, "McDojo" is synonymous with "fraud." They are the slimy car dealer of the martial arts world. They will tell you anything to get you in the door and take your money, even if what they tell you isn't true. They're playing the odds that you won't bother complaining.

I've had countless people call me asking for kickboxing. I own an BJJ academy. I have been given the advice by some "experts" that you should always say you have what they're looking for because people don't know the difference. That would be the action of a McDojo.

Instead, I do this:

"No I don't have a kickboxing program. We teach Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at the academy. Were you looking for kickboxing specifically?"

IF YES: "Ok, no problem. Let me give you the number of Ryan down the street. He's the best Kickboxing guy I know."

IF NO: "Ok. Let me tell you a little about jiu-jitsu. You may be interested."

Simple...I find the truth is 100 times more powerful than any lie. I have done this no less than 10 times and every time the person chose me because they appreciated my honesty. McDojos don't do that.

McDojos:

- Anything to get you in the door

- Don't care about your skill

To me, those two things make it a McDojo.

Solid post!!

[wayneshin]

As a school starts to grow the owner is going to find they are no longer be able to do everything. The decisions that are made about what you are going to do and what you bring others in to do will define what sort of school you become. When the club owner/chief instructor spends more time in the office than on the floor while other less experienced instructors teach and decisions are made for purely financials reasons then you are starting to look like what most define as a Mc Dojo.

[ps1]

As a school starts to grow the owner is going to find they are no longer be able to do everything. The decisions that are made about what you are going to do and what you bring others in to do will define what sort of school you become. When the club owner/chief instructor spends more time in the office than on the floor while other less experienced instructors teach and decisions are made for purely financials reasons then you are starting to look like what most define as a Mc Dojo.

I don't necessarily agree with this unless the school owner claims to be on the mats every day. If you come in the door and try out a few classes and the owner is never on the floor, it should be obvious what you're getting.

For an owner, there are really two choices he/she can make as their school grows.

1. Become the manager and "hire" instructors

2. Remain the instructor and hire managers.

I've seen both options work just fine. Again, it comes back to whether you were lied to or not.

[wayneshin]

As a school starts to grow the owner is going to find they are no longer be able to do everything. The decisions that are made about what you are going to do and what you bring others in to do will define what sort of school you become. When the club owner/chief instructor spends more time in the office than on the floor while other less experienced instructors teach and decisions are made for purely financials reasons then you are starting to look like what most define as a Mc Dojo.

I don't necessarily agree with this unless the school owner claims to be on the mats every day. If you come in the door and try out a few classes and the owner is never on the floor, it should be obvious what you're getting.

For an owner, there are really two choices he/she can make as their school grows.

1. Become the manager and "hire" instructors

2. Remain the instructor and hire managers.

I've seen both options work just fine. Again, it comes back to whether you were lied to or not.

I see your point. My thought is not so much relating to how much time the owner spends on the mat. More relating to what is driving his decision making.

When you running a school as a business it is very easy to get caught up in profit margins. Whiile this is not entirely unreasonable there has to be a balance to ensure it is not at the expense of the integrity and quality of your program.