Lineage

[devil dog]

I was talking with a fellow Karateka and the subject of lineage came up. I wanted to ask how important is lineage in your art? Do you know your lineage?

In every art I have studied (Okinawan and Japanese) lineage is very important.

My main art (Matsumura Shorin Ryu) lineage is as follows;

Kusanku

Sakugawa Tode

Matsumura "Bushi" Sokon

Matsumura Nabe

Hohan Sokon

Yuichi Kuda

[Harkon72]

My Shukokai Karate Linage is as follows;

Uzawa Naonobu

Tabata Shigeyoshi

Taizaburo Nakamura

Fumio Demura

Julian Malalieu

Eric Williams

Me!

Not bad at all I think.

[wagnerk]

I know the lineage of most of the martial arts that I've studied going back to the start of that particular art/style. A couple of them I only know going back to the start of that particular association. And the one's that I've studied for less than 3 months, I can't even remember the instructor's name

Not going to write it all out, but I can post either a link or picture here.

[Wastelander]

When I first started training in martial arts, I was told that lineage only matters in martial arts and music . I do think that lineage is somewhat helpful, but only to a point--if you are claiming a certain lineage, then you should be able to prove that, but if you are simply claiming to provide good training, then you can prove that "on the floor" (sorry for stealing your motto, sensei8).

All that said, I do think that studying the lineage of your art can be very interesting. I also believe that it is important to know where your art came from. A while back, I discovered a website called the Martial Arts Lineage Project, which actually supports that idea. It's actually pretty neat--you can map out your entire lineage like a family tree, and if people in your lineage have already been added to the database, then you can just connect to them and have that section automatically completed. If you have a complicated lineage, it will chop it down into a smaller, summarized family tree, but it's still cool. Here's mine: http://www.malineage.com/martial-artists/Noah-Legel

[Nidan Melbourne]

from my knowledge of my lineage is as follows (but don't feel comfortable with leaving their surname for privacy):

Tino Cebrano

Shihan Wong

Sensei Terry

Sensei Chris

Me

my students

Both Tino and Shihan Wong have been training for a long time so i can't really decide who should go first.

[devil dog]

When I first started training in martial arts, I was told that lineage only matters in martial arts and music . I do think that lineage is somewhat helpful, but only to a point--if you are claiming a certain lineage, then you should be able to prove that, but if you are simply claiming to provide good training, then you can prove that "on the floor" (sorry for stealing your motto, sensei8).

I resect that. I am a show me not tell me guy as well. However lineage is a great way to verify who you are, who your instructor is and who his instructor is if the organization they came from keeps records.

Bar that I agree with you when it comes to showing versus telling. It is possible that a student comes from a very notable instructor and can prove it but could not fight their way out of a paper bag.

Lineage does not prove that you are a good practitioner of the art or that you are a good instructor it just gives a basis of proof to claims. Heaven knows there are a dime a dozen instructors with phony credentials out there.

Lineage is also a way to learn the history of an art and also a way to understand how your art developed and who or what styles influenced it. Example: there are probably 15 to 20 sub branches of Shorin Ryu. Some are pretty direct back to Mastumura and some come from Matsumura and the influences of other arts and teachers. It is a good thing to know why your Pinan Shodan is slightly different from their Pinan Shodan or why they have certain Tomari Te or Naha Te based kata's and you don't.

It opens the students mind to finding answers on their own and understand why their art is what it is.

It is a great teaching tool and it keep the past alive through the next generation. Just my 2 cents for what that is worth.

[sensei8]

Lineage is important. However, it's only important within the style and/or governing body that you're part of. Lineage I suppose, for the most, can be subjective to the reader. It's a fine line!!

[ps1]

It is...and isn't important.

You can have the best instructors in the world. But if you aren't good at the art...then it means nothing.

Lineage is a very relative thing.

[sensei8]

It is...and isn't important.

You can have the best instructors in the world. But if you aren't good at the art...then it means nothing.

Lineage is a very relative thing.

Solid post!!

My MA journey is mine, not those who came before me. Glad to know my lineage, but what I produce as a MAist on the floor, well, I can't expect, nor can I wait, for those before me to validate my totality as a MAist.

[DWx]

It is...and isn't important.

You can have the best instructors in the world. But if you aren't good at the art...then it means nothing.

Lineage is a very relative thing.

Seems to be it's only important if you already have. It's nice to be able to claim a link back to a certain person but it doesn't mean you're good.