The Kicking Foot Orientation!!

[DWx]

A Shindokan roundhouse is delivered with the top of ones foot, and not the ball of the foot because there are solid reasons as to why the ball is used by other styles of the MA, but in Shindokan, we've, well, our Soke, had determined that the toes were more susceptible to injury and that, the top of our foot provided more contact surface.

In Gen. Choi's Encyclopedia, he talks about a round kick with the ball of the foot being used from the opponent's "flank." I think this is due to the way the ball of the foot is exposed when the toes are pulled back. By flank, I think he means being at an angle to the attacker, so that the ball of the foot contacts, and the toes do not.

Just a thought.

That is an important point. For ball of the foot, Gen Choi taught that you should never ever target something in front of you. Your target is off your centre line and more on the 45 degree angle to ensure a proper contact angle and save your toes! If your target is in front, you have to move or step first before kicking (as in Ge Baek move #33).

[sensei8]

Foot orientation in roundhouse kicks isn't really governed by our style--we teach a variety of striking methods. For those with flexible toes, roundhouse kicks with the ball of the feet work quite well, as they have good penetration and speed. For those with strong, sturdy toes, roundhouse kicks with the tips of the toes work well to soft targets. For everyone wanting to get the most power possible into their kick, the shin is the preferred striking surface. For speed and reach, the top of the foot is better. In our dojo, none of these is "wrong" or "correct," so long as they are used in the appropriate context.

To the bold type above...

It's interesting that you say that. Why? Because its been my impression that the governing body DOES dictate how said technqiue is delivered. Although, those of authority have been known to "change" the method, even if just ever so slightly. Now, what the practitioner does, is up to said practitioner.

Imho.

[Wastelander]

Foot orientation in roundhouse kicks isn't really governed by our style--we teach a variety of striking methods. For those with flexible toes, roundhouse kicks with the ball of the feet work quite well, as they have good penetration and speed. For those with strong, sturdy toes, roundhouse kicks with the tips of the toes work well to soft targets. For everyone wanting to get the most power possible into their kick, the shin is the preferred striking surface. For speed and reach, the top of the foot is better. In our dojo, none of these is "wrong" or "correct," so long as they are used in the appropriate context.

To the bold type above...

It's interesting that you say that. Why? Because its been my impression that the governing body DOES dictate how said technqiue is delivered. Although, those of authority have been known to "change" the method, even if just ever so slightly. Now, what the practitioner does, is up to said practitioner.

Imho.

That may often be the case, but it doesn't seem to be in our style--the roundhouse kick isn't a "traditional" technique, in the sense that it does not exist in it's explicit form in any of our kata. The techniques that are explicitly performed, rather than implied, in kata are the ones that are dictated by our governing body. Even then, though, different people will teach things slightly differently. Perhaps Nakazato Sensei teaches the roundhouse kick only one way in the Honbu dojo, but no one seems to be corrected on it when they travel to Okinawa, or when the Okinawans travel to our training camps here.

[bushido_man96]

Foot orientation in roundhouse kicks isn't really governed by our style--we teach a variety of striking methods. For those with flexible toes, roundhouse kicks with the ball of the feet work quite well, as they have good penetration and speed. For those with strong, sturdy toes, roundhouse kicks with the tips of the toes work well to soft targets. For everyone wanting to get the most power possible into their kick, the shin is the preferred striking surface. For speed and reach, the top of the foot is better. In our dojo, none of these is "wrong" or "correct," so long as they are used in the appropriate context.

When you do your forms, is there a method that is preferred? In all of our forms, the round kicks are done with the toes pulled back, ball of the foot used as the striking tool. Same in one-steps. But when we spar, its pretty much our choice. Is there a right or wrong considered for your forms?

Edit here: scratch that last thought; I just read your last post. I guess I'm just used to the idea of round kicks being in forms.

[bushido_man96]

A Shindokan roundhouse is delivered with the top of ones foot, and not the ball of the foot because there are solid reasons as to why the ball is used by other styles of the MA, but in Shindokan, we've, well, our Soke, had determined that the toes were more susceptible to injury and that, the top of our foot provided more contact surface.

In Gen. Choi's Encyclopedia, he talks about a round kick with the ball of the foot being used from the opponent's "flank." I think this is due to the way the ball of the foot is exposed when the toes are pulled back. By flank, I think he means being at an angle to the attacker, so that the ball of the foot contacts, and the toes do not.

Just a thought.

That is an important point. For ball of the foot, Gen Choi taught that you should never ever target something in front of you. Your target is off your centre line and more on the 45 degree angle to ensure a proper contact angle and save your toes! If your target is in front, you have to move or step first before kicking (as in Ge Baek move #33).

What's more interesting for us is that we don't do an adjustment movement for our round kicks in any of our forms. I also note that in the Encylopedia that I have by Gen. Choi and by Anslow that the kick is done at a 45 degree angle, the body only turning probably 135 degrees, then kicking. Our forms, and the ones I did in the ATA, don't do that.

[Wastelander]

When you do your forms, is there a method that is preferred? In all of our forms, the round kicks are done with the toes pulled back, ball of the foot used as the striking tool. Same in one-steps. But when we spar, its pretty much our choice. Is there a right or wrong considered for your forms?

Edit here: scratch that last thought; I just read your last post. I guess I'm just used to the idea of round kicks being in forms.

Haha, yes, I think that throws people off, sometimes. In our kata, the only kicks that are explicitly used (performed the way you would in application) are front snap kicks, back kicks, and one inside crescent kick. All other kicks--side kicks, shovel/oblique kicks, roundhouse kicks, etc.--are implied, meaning the forms tell you that you could do them there, but do not have you perform them completely.

[bushido_man96]

When you do your forms, is there a method that is preferred? In all of our forms, the round kicks are done with the toes pulled back, ball of the foot used as the striking tool. Same in one-steps. But when we spar, its pretty much our choice. Is there a right or wrong considered for your forms?

Edit here: scratch that last thought; I just read your last post. I guess I'm just used to the idea of round kicks being in forms.

Haha, yes, I think that throws people off, sometimes. In our kata, the only kicks that are explicitly used (performed the way you would in application) are front snap kicks, back kicks, and one inside crescent kick. All other kicks--side kicks, shovel/oblique kicks, roundhouse kicks, etc.--are implied, meaning the forms tell you that you could do them there, but do not have you perform them completely.

Its interesting to me that you say they are "implied." How so? Is it by the use of chamber motions that are not extended when doing the form? Or is it through some other subtle motions?

[Wastelander]

Its interesting to me that you say they are "implied." How so? Is it by the use of chamber motions that are not extended when doing the form? Or is it through some other subtle motions?

Turns, lifted feet, stances, etc. could all imply potential kicks. The most obvious example is in the kata Naihanchi--I think it's called Chulgi in TKD, if that helps? There are sections where you do sweeping motions with the feet that, in addition to legitimately working as foot sweeps, can be the chamber position for shovel kicks. My style also makes liberal use of cat stances throughout our other forms, which take your weight off the lead leg, which frees it up to kick or sweep.

[CredoTe]

Its interesting to me that you say they are "implied." How so? Is it by the use of chamber motions that are not extended when doing the form? Or is it through some other subtle motions?

Turns, lifted feet, stances, etc. could all imply potential kicks. The most obvious example is in the kata Naihanchi--I think it's called Chulgi in TKD, if that helps? There are sections where you do sweeping motions with the feet that, in addition to legitimately working as foot sweeps, can be the chamber position for shovel kicks. My style also makes liberal use of cat stances throughout our other forms, which take your weight off the lead leg, which frees it up to kick or sweep.

Absolutely... Also, I don't know if Kobayashi still includes Rohai in its curriculum, but that's another kata that has some implied kicks.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Depends on the situation. In class we generally do toes pointed if we don't want to hurt our partners. but we primarily kick toes pulled back and end up striking with the ball of the foot.