Defiant and Lazy

[CredoTe]

I would just treat him as you would like to be treated. I like mal103's idea.

Managing online communities like this one, I've come to a simple understanding: when it comes to what I can expect from a person, attitude wise, I can pretty much throw age in the dumpster as far as it being a useful indicator.

I believe that a majority of all of the worst people I've ever had to deal with here, the people I have had to ban, the people who wouldn't follow a set of guidelines if you held it in front of their face every day for a year, were people in their late 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s.

What can I say about the 38 year old woman who flipped out, started spamming people, sending emails to members telling them how awful I was, hounding all of the moderators and talking about how they were all terrible at life? Was that her "teenage attitude"? Though it can be easy for one to become jaded, I don't go around saying "well, that's just adults for you" and that's that "adult attitude" coming through.

Meanwhile, some of the greatest members we've ever had, joined when they were teenagers. What does this tell me? Nothing. Nothing except for the fact that, when it comes to drive, motivation, a good attitude, etc., age pretty much means nothing.

There is an endless stream of adults who just skate by in life, putting in a half-hearted effort (or worse) in pretty much everything that they do. You know plenty of them, don't you? Of course, there is also a stream of teenagers who this applies to. In all, there is a stream of people, of all ages, who do this.

I'd encourage you to just treat a teenager like any other decent human being and also understand that it's not easy being a kid, especially a teenager because while you are growing to become an adult, you are still pretty much in charge of nothing. People expect you to act like an adult, yet you literally get almost none of the perks of actually being an adult. Heh.

As a reminder, you are all a member of an online community that was started by a 15 year old. It was incredibly frustrating when people approached me in this manner as I was trying to find my way. I remember one person told me, "I'm older than you, why should I respect you?" That always stuck with me and I've always endeavored to treat all members here the same, regardless of their age or experience in the arts.

Just something to think about.

Thanks,

Patrick

Very much a hard-hitting razor, man... I like it

And more great advice from bushido_man96 and others...

UPDATE: This student did a little better tonight in class, but I'm not sure if it's anything we instructors are doing differently. As far as choosing an option to work with this student, I will let everyone know next week, sometime. We'll be out of town this weekend, so I won't have a chance to do anything until then.

Thanks again everyone for weighing in!

[bushido_man96]

Please keep us posted on his progress, and what action you decide to take.

[mal103]

It's true to say that you get lazyness at all ages, we get a constant stream of wannabe's who want a Black belt at any cost so long as they don't have to work hard, you are normally the ones who miss lots of training and then come twice a week near the grading.

Another trick is to just work them harder, if they come back they are serious....

[ninjanurse]

I have a kid in my adult class with similar circumstances. After much frustration and many months of listening to him whine and act like a toddler I finally figured out that he had almost zero self esteem therefore he continually told himself he couldn't do it so why try-it was a learned behavior stemming from circumstances at home. I enlisted the rest of the class to develop a plan to encourage him without babying him or letting him off the hook for his behavior-and we all worked at it together. So far it is working (he comes back after every class and has made great strides in retention of material)-and with continued encouragement and increasing expectations I am hopeful he will eventually turn around and believe that he really is capable of anything he choses.

[bushido_man96]

I have a kid in my adult class with similar circumstances. After much frustration and many months of listening to him whine and act like a toddler I finally figured out that he had almost zero self esteem therefore he continually told himself he couldn't do it so why try-it was a learned behavior stemming from circumstances at home. I enlisted the rest of the class to develop a plan to encourage him without babying him or letting him off the hook for his behavior-and we all worked at it together. So far it is working (he comes back after every class and has made great strides in retention of material)-and with continued encouragement and increasing expectations I am hopeful he will eventually turn around and believe that he really is capable of anything he choses.

Wow, that's a great approach, Heidi, and very cool that you were able to get the whole class involved in helping to turn him around. Thanks for sharing this approach with us!

[CredoTe]

UPDATE: This week in class (last night), I have begun using some of the suggestions here to work with the student in question. I'm starting with a version of what mal103 suggested regarding having a senior student work with the student in question.

I plan on gradually incorporating / blending mal103's suggestion with what ninjanurse suggests; meaning, I will add to the number of senior students that work with and around this student so he eventually sees a large group helping him while increasing what's expected of him.

We'll see how it goes...

[Nidan Melbourne]

Thats great what your doing CredoTe! Hopefully the student gets and utilizes that help that your trying to give him/her!

HIGH FIVE!

[ninjanurse]

Like this!

[mal103]

I'm humbled that some of my ideas have been useful, good luck with them, make or break them.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Its always amazing what a small gesture of a comment on how to rectify something like a lazy and defiant student can really fix a problem. and that anyone can learn how to fix that situation