I reacted to a spitting attack today

[Harkon72]

Today I was enjoying a coffee in a local cafe when a person pointed to my Red Remembrance Poppy and Spat in my face and drink.

My reaction was to stand and hit him off his feet with a palm heel strike to the chin. As I chambered my front kick I noticed he was out cold against the counter, so I did not kick him. His so called older friend who must have put him up to it pocketed his cell phone and ran and left him.

I helped the cafe waitress to get him to his feet and asked her to call an ambulance. I left before they came. A gentleman and his wife smiled at me and assured me that they saw nothing and said what a lovely day it was.

I think I did my best to practice control, the only things my friend was left with was a sore jaw and a hefty dentist bill.

I value my freedom and I will wear my poppy with pride.

[Evil Dave]

As a former soldier, stand tall my friend and always ensure the video phones are turned off!

[MasterPain]

What's the poppy for? And why the anger over it?

[Patrick]

Hey Bill,

This will give you an idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy

As far as the anger over it, check out this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_poppy#Protests_and_controversy

From there, further research can delve into the various viewpoints.

At this time, I will remind everyone that KarateForums.com is no place for general political discussion, so this thread should not be used as a means of voicing support or opposition to the idea of wearing a remembrance poppy nor denouncing or criticizing those that do or choose not to.

This is the Self Defense forum and this conversation should focus squarely on Gareth's experience here from a self defense perspective and related topics, such as whether or not he practiced effective, reasonable self defense, or not.

I appreciate it.

Thanks,

Patrick

[mal103]

Fair point Patrick, the topic does bring out strong emotions...

From the Karate point of view then it's easy to say that we should show restraint and not hit first etc but this was an attack and a very nasty attack that will get even the most mild mannered person enraged so I can't really blame you for hitting him.

I would like to say that I would show restraint, walk away and all of that but in all honesty I think I would have done exactly the same. I commend you for keeping it to one hit and stopping after the first hit did the job.

This is a classic example of Karate has no first attack/strike, the attack had begun even though he wasn't punching/kicking, who's to know if that wasn't a fient for a prolonged attack, you were justified in responding.

[Hawkmoon]

Fair point Patrick, the topic does bring out strong emotions...

From the Karate point of view then it's easy to say that we should show restraint and not hit first etc but this was an attack and a very nasty attack that will get even the most mild mannered person enraged so I can't really blame you for hitting him.

I would like to say that I would show restraint, walk away and all of that but in all honesty I think I would have done exactly the same. I commend you for keeping it to one hit and stopping after the first hit did the job.

This is a classic example of Karate has no first attack/strike, the attack had begun even though he wasn't punching/kicking, who's to know if that wasn't a fient for a prolonged attack, you were justified in responding.

Harkon, you acted in response to an attack!

I'm not Law enforcement I'm not military, I come from a a military family! (Army brat) So have a military view and a strong sense of honor and hence my interest in MA and such cultures.

Spitting to me only has one purpose and that is to provoke!

Simple as that, keeping my emotion back, to spit is to attack to insult!

As I understand you as to what then happened next, you gave a measured even controlled response.

Lets not open the potential medical concerns here!

Many, as Patrick's post to examples on the Wiki offers, have gone much much further for much less provocation!

In a sense the fact that today we have various Martial arts to pick and choose from, many appeared through differences between teachers and historically blood feuds and even war between this Shogun or that Warlord have come to pass.

I will only add as I have said time and time before;

'stop when they submit take no pride in the action, have no grey areas to explain!"

Best to not be in that situation at all, but to this I would certainly add you had no other choice, that option had been taken form you by there action!

Edited November 27, 2013 by Hawkmoon

[bushido_man96]

I believe in turning the other cheek when appropriate, but I also believe that no one should have to tolerate something like that.

Sounds like you handled it, though.

[Harkon72]

I thought long an hard about sharing my experience or not. It was a Self Defense situation and a nasty one. I felt violated and the demon inside of me took a great leap until I found the strength to restrain it. Thank you for your support, and I apologize for raising such a controversial and powerfully political context on what is a peaceful forum. My point with regards to martial arts is that my training drew out the follow up front kick from me, and as it materialized a slight insight into its consequence prevented it. My opponent was helpless and to indulge in a violent finisher would have been in truth criminal. I submitted the post not to feel any pride but to share an experience that illustrates where we can be led to and where I feel my Karatedo has taken me. I appreciate your words and I am grateful Patrick for your understanding. Thank you again.

[andym]

WELL DONE.

[tallgeese]

First up, I'm glad everything worked out and that no one is permanently hurt or jailed.

Situations like this can run a truly fine line. So before I go any further let me acknowledge that I wasn't there an in the middle of it, it's very hard to say what should or should not have taken place. Having been spit on myself at work a time or two I can say that I understand the feelings that this can bring up.

One thing to consider with this sort of thing is that here in the US, depending on the state, physical contact after an incident can lead you into legal trouble. Certain state laws allow for standing your ground under aggression while others, like the one I live in, require that citizens faced with aggression take action to leave the situation without furthering the incident. Only after reasonable efforts have been made to leave can on physically defend oneself.

Depending on the wording of the laws, there might also be an expectation for a "proportional response". This can be tricky.

So, even though a physical response might be emotionally understandable it can become legally tricky. Granted, all of this based on US laws. Mileage might vary.