[Link] How people walk correlates with risk of attack

[Nidan Melbourne]

Not only do I watch people but I look at people for a potential threat.

If I feel there may be a potential threat I'll look for any potential weak spot if they do actually attack me. but I also look at them going "what did they do to themselves?"

[Hawkmoon]

Not only do I watch people but I look at people for a potential threat. ...

(bit of an essay sorry)

Yes, I've done that but I only do this as part of a general response to the atmosphere the 'vibes' I get from the people and the place itself around me!

If things are tense and humid (a hot club or bar for example) then I start to evaluate people the ones in the background all silent & quiet (The Dark horse) as well as 'escape routes'.

An actual way out as much as a place to retreat to to take me and mine away form a situation if things go nuclear!

As to the dark horse, they are watched like a hawk (no pun intended), not because they have talent, or they are friends of any side of a situation, but because they are the ones with a weapon!

(Bottle, knife, chain, glass...)

The drive for them is a desire to attack form the shadows from behind to gain the advantage. These guys (thanks to films & TV) are the ones that want to be seen standing in the middle of the carnage as the first person everyone else sees when the dust settles.

Glory hunters, ones with an over inflated ego that they actually accept is way WAY past any actual ability hence the fighting style they have!

Some of the crews I have worked with in clubs and pubs select these guys almost as primary ejections candidates when things go bad.

To offer a story regarding bushido_man96's post..... A local celeb MMA guy had his little entourage and all were notorious for walking around pushing the door staff to the limits...just for fun!

- (Not my patch which was better)

In the earlier days they were not known and so playing themselves down would...have fun...I guess with anyone that tried to do the 'right' thing. Before long the group wouldn't get past the front doors, which was good, but these guys, bad mind sets etc were from various MA backgrounds.

To me it was obvious, you could see how they held themselves no matter how they tried to dumb themselves down that they had 'options' open to them. As a customer I was surprised to see other revelers react, be choice or not not sure to them, yet the door staff were (sadly I have to say) completely oblivious, hell would breakout first before they reacted.

Confidence is one thing, people watching another but the faith in the 'guys'/team people you are with has to be considered.

If they run then you alone have a situation to deal with, you have to react to them as much as the threat.

[DWx]

So I got a copy of the paper. I think the BBC article is slightly misleading.

Three experiments were carried out:

Experiment 1

- all subjects tested were female between ages of 13 and 35, predominantly European

- they had to walk across a darkened room with lights on their clothing (like for motion capture)

- told to walk normally then told to walk as if they were alone in a park

- 3 groups of women; those who had just completed a SD course (20), those who had done so in the last 6 months (15),and those with no training (44)

- self defence course was considered 6hrs of study

- walkers then rated by equal numbers of male and female viewers as to their vulnerabilities

- interesting to note that they also had 18 people who had completed at least 1 month of MA study but they chose not to include this data

Experiments 2:

- same set up as above, taking females who had never done a self defense course and videotaping them walking immediately before and immediately after, then 1 week later and 1 month later

- all European and aged between 18 and 25

What's interesting is:

Two attempts were needed to recruit participants for this study. Initially, women in the none condition of Experiment 1 who had high ratings for ease of attack in the normal walking condition were approached and asked to par- ticipate. Only 2 women of the 6 who agreed to participate completed three or more of the four sessions in the self-defense course. Neither of these women returned for the follow-up videotaping.

The second recruitment involved approaching women who had signed up for the self-defense course being run at the University Recreation Centre. Of the 9 women attending the course, 7 agreed to participate in the experiment (and hence had their course fees refunded). Of these 7 women, 5 completed all four of the self-defense sessions and returned for each of the follow-up videotaping sessions

Experiment 3 is the same as 2 except that the training was in how to walk. (Not clear to me whether this was the same group of women from exp 2)

Then finally from the conclusion:

The impact of both generic self-defense training (Experiments 1 and 2) and specific movement training (Experiment 3) on walking style and vulnerability was also investigated. The results regarding the impact of a self-defense course were mixed. In Experiment I, walkers who had just completed a self-defense course were rated as harder to attack, under normal walking conditions, than were those walkers who had not completed such a course or who had completed a self-defense course at least 6 months previously. In Experiment 2, however, attendance at the same self-defense course did not result in significant changes to either walking style or ease-of-attack ratings. The major focus of the self-defense course was on the ability of individuals to defend themselves against attackers, both verbally and physically, rather than on avoiding attack (reducing one’s vul- nerability). As such, it is impressive that the self-defense training had any effect on perceived vulnerability of walkers. The mechanism by which this occurred for those in Experiment I, but not Experiment 2, warrants further research. The impact of the individual walking training on walking styles and vulnerability was much stronger (Experiment 3), despite small numbers of participants. For each participant, there were marked changes in walking style and vulnerability as a consequence of the training. The women integrated into their walking style the targeted walking-style features previously shown to be associated with low vul- nerability. This change in walking style across training sessions predicted the reduction in ease-of-attack ratings seen for each of the women. These changes to walking style and reductions in vulnerability also persisted to at least 1 month after completion of the training course

I've not had a chance to trawl through all 24 pages of results yet but I thought the above would be interesting at least.

[mal103]

Good points, I was with a shipmate in Italy in the dockyard area going back to our Sub, there were 4 guys ahead who looked like business, my mate nudged me and put his hand inside his jacket glaring at the first couple of guys.

The result was a stand down from them all initiated by the lead guy, thinking that they may have caught a nasty fish in their net.

Shortly afterwards my mate was shaking with a beer in hand stating that he had gambled with it but it paid off, showing confidence and the thought of having concealed weopons was enough to put these guys off, there was no other way round.

I have lived in London and been to the worst parts, acting confidently but not over the top does work, if you act like a victim then some lion will take a bite.

On another occasion in the USA we were service men ashore getting drunk when some man mountain told us that we should leave due to being drunk, another shipmate of mine literally got up from the floor and read this massive guy the riot act that he served in wars and was having a drink and should be left alone as he wasn't hurting anyone... the big guy faded away due to the over confidence of the reaction.

If I was to be scared of anyone it should be the big guy or quiet guy, but normally the focus is on the confident or noisey guy who looks like he "WILL" react. 10 people holding a knife, you should be afraid of the one who looks like he will use it rather than the biggest or meanest looking.

[Harkon72]

I'm the best at minding my own business in foreign parts, but in this country a nod of acknowledgement to the hard nuts is usually all it takes. True, if you act the victim you are likely to become one. Most people can't be bothered with you; but if you show respect you usually receive it. A word of Welsh goes a long way in some pubs in rural Wales even if that word is all you know.

[sensei8]

So I got a copy of the paper. I think the BBC article is slightly misleading.

Three experiments were carried out:

Experiment 1

- all subjects tested were female between ages of 13 and 35, predominantly European

- they had to walk across a darkened room with lights on their clothing (like for motion capture)

- told to walk normally then told to walk as if they were alone in a park

- 3 groups of women; those who had just completed a SD course (20), those who had done so in the last 6 months (15),and those with no training (44)

- self defence course was considered 6hrs of study

- walkers then rated by equal numbers of male and female viewers as to their vulnerabilities

- interesting to note that they also had 18 people who had completed at least 1 month of MA study but they chose not to include this data

Experiments 2:

- same set up as above, taking females who had never done a self defense course and videotaping them walking immediately before and immediately after, then 1 week later and 1 month later

- all European and aged between 18 and 25

What's interesting is:

Two attempts were needed to recruit participants for this study. Initially, women in the none condition of Experiment 1 who had high ratings for ease of attack in the normal walking condition were approached and asked to par- ticipate. Only 2 women of the 6 who agreed to participate completed three or more of the four sessions in the self-defense course. Neither of these women returned for the follow-up videotaping.

The second recruitment involved approaching women who had signed up for the self-defense course being run at the University Recreation Centre. Of the 9 women attending the course, 7 agreed to participate in the experiment (and hence had their course fees refunded). Of these 7 women, 5 completed all four of the self-defense sessions and returned for each of the follow-up videotaping sessions

Experiment 3 is the same as 2 except that the training was in how to walk. (Not clear to me whether this was the same group of women from exp 2)

Then finally from the conclusion:

The impact of both generic self-defense training (Experiments 1 and 2) and specific movement training (Experiment 3) on walking style and vulnerability was also investigated. The results regarding the impact of a self-defense course were mixed. In Experiment I, walkers who had just completed a self-defense course were rated as harder to attack, under normal walking conditions, than were those walkers who had not completed such a course or who had completed a self-defense course at least 6 months previously. In Experiment 2, however, attendance at the same self-defense course did not result in significant changes to either walking style or ease-of-attack ratings. The major focus of the self-defense course was on the ability of individuals to defend themselves against attackers, both verbally and physically, rather than on avoiding attack (reducing one’s vul- nerability). As such, it is impressive that the self-defense training had any effect on perceived vulnerability of walkers. The mechanism by which this occurred for those in Experiment I, but not Experiment 2, warrants further research. The impact of the individual walking training on walking styles and vulnerability was much stronger (Experiment 3), despite small numbers of participants. For each participant, there were marked changes in walking style and vulnerability as a consequence of the training. The women integrated into their walking style the targeted walking-style features previously shown to be associated with low vul- nerability. This change in walking style across training sessions predicted the reduction in ease-of-attack ratings seen for each of the women. These changes to walking style and reductions in vulnerability also persisted to at least 1 month after completion of the training course

I've not had a chance to trawl through all 24 pages of results yet but I thought the above would be interesting at least.

Very solid post!!

[Hawkmoon]

I do like this topic, and other 'like' threads.

Tells, confidence, planning a fight, making the final choice to go that far...all connected to various degrees all making up a single situation and so potential scenario and choice.

Wishing this was a better way to put this and ask, but, what do you see around you when things look bad?

What are you looking for , if you are looking for anything?

Seriously step back a moment and consider when was it you noticed the atmosphere or the attention towards you or yours changed for what ever reason to be less friendly?

Was there a strike, some shouting, a 'little word in your ear' ......

[bushido_man96]

If they really wanted some accurate readings and ratings of who looked vulnerable and who didn't, they should have cobbled together some true predatory criminals to rate them. Those guys know a potential victim when they see one.

[JusticeZero]

Well, they built off of a study that did, so..

[Hawkmoon]

I'd like to see more data along these lines!

Walking is one thing 100% but there is more 'things' like this that should be considered.

Voice

Facial expression

look

that sort of thing!