Traditions!!

[sensei8]

Aside from the definitions found in many sorted dictionaries, I'd like to present to you, KF members, what's not found in said publications...

Tradition is what YOU think that it is because your MA journey is yours alone!! Therefore, tradition is what YOU decide that it is FOR YOU

Instructors, as well as styles, teach us, or try to teach us, exactly what "Tradition" is. That's fine, but I'd like to find out for myself away from what the main stream of the MA is deciding for me. Let me learn for myself, and in that, let what I learn be true for ME!!

Albeit, next time you're learning/training at someone else's dojo/dojang/school/etc, remember this: Their tradition is NOW YOUR tradition as well while you're in their dojo/dojang/school/etc.

Respect that, or not! It has always been up to YOU!!

Thoughts?

[bushido_man96]

Tradition is one of those things that comes along with just about every style. Really, it boils down to just being certain acts, ideals, or rules that are followed over a period of time and just become ingrained to those that follow them.

If one chooses to visit another school, then they should be willing to follow along with whatever traditions are present for the time being, out of respect for the place. If one doesn't agree with them, then seeking somewhere else to train should be the way to go.

It becomes unfortunate when tradition leads to stagnation.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Tradition is one of those things that comes along with just about every style. Really, it boils down to just being certain acts, ideals, or rules that are followed over a period of time and just become ingrained to those that follow them.

If one chooses to visit another school, then they should be willing to follow along with whatever traditions are present for the time being, out of respect for the place. If one doesn't agree with them, then seeking somewhere else to train should be the way to go.

It becomes unfortunate when tradition leads to stagnation.

I agree, I visit multiple schools that I have spoken to over the years and they call me up inviting me to train. If I agree to train there one day I politely ask what rules and traditions they have. Most of the time it isnt any different to where I train but 5 of the schools I visited had a different way of speaking to instructors and how they bow in. One of those schools that was different I was most senior student there so I was excused from doing the formal words for bowing in as they were different to what I know.

[bushido_man96]

Now, if the instructor invites you in, then said instructor shouldn't get too bent out of shape if you don't observe their traditions. Just my feelings there.

[Nidan Melbourne]

Now, if the instructor invites you in, then said instructor shouldn't get too bent out of shape if you don't observe their traditions. Just my feelings there.

I get what you mean

But what some of them have told me "you have to follow our traditions" which i did politely ask so i didn't embarrass myself.

[KyungYet]

Well, there's two kinds of traditions, right? Ones you just sort of make up yourself ("every Christmas season, we go to the Marmalade Café" or "I always line up my French Fries from largest to smallest before I eat them")(both true, by the way, LOL) and then there are ones that are decades or even centuries old that were formed by a collective at a point in time long ago. In a sense, the difference may simply be time, but there's also often some historical/cultural reason behind them rather than just randomness or idiosyncrasy (don't judge my fry-eating ways).

I don't think martial arts traditions are "whatever you want them to be, because they're yours!" That's a little too... new-agey... and self-serving an interpretation for me. At least, you could certainly have your own traditions of type one, above, but the rest of them are a lot bigger than you: they've been around before you and will be around long after you're gone. When instructors "tell us what tradition is" - if they're reporting accurately - we can't just change that to suit us. It is what it is. I dislike it when instructors try to put their own spin on something that's bigger than them just to make it their own. But I openly admit that this is my own, very judgmental and inflexible opinion - I don't mean to be insulting, I'm just sharing what I believe.

On the other hand, re: other people's traditions... why would you ever NOT follow them? Unless the tradition is to kick a puppy or something! When you go to someone else's house, or visit another country, or go to someone else's karate school, I can't see the harm in going along with what they're doing. It's respectful and courteous. I don't even mean "martial arts respectful," I just mean "everyday human being respectful." Right??

There, I apparently had lots of feelings on this matter. Got 'em out, thanks. =)

KY

[Harkon72]

Honor is a fine tradition in any one's Language.

[Hawkmoon]

Tradition is one of those things that comes along with just about every style. Really, it boils down to just being certain acts, ideals, or rules that are followed over a period of time and just become ingrained to those that follow them.

If one chooses to visit another school, then they should be willing to follow along with whatever traditions are present for the time being, out of respect for the place. If one doesn't agree with them, then seeking somewhere else to train should be the way to go.

It becomes unfortunate when tradition leads to stagnation.

I agree, I visit multiple schools that I have spoken to over the years and they call me up inviting me to train. If I agree to train there one day I politely ask what rules and traditions they have. Most of the time it isn't any different to where I train but 5 of the schools I visited had a different way of speaking to instructors and how they bow in. .....

yes, exactly what i found when encouraged to visit other dojos as I was invited to train at other dojos.

For the most part all had a series of formal behavior and greetings and actions in and around the dojo and senior ranks not unlike the 'ways' I had been taught in my Ryu of karate.

Sure yes I bowed differently, I also did kihon differently and more often than not fought differently. (and so the reason for the invite I guess)....but...

Tradition is what YOU think that it is because your MA journey is yours alone!! Therefore, tradition is what YOU decide that it is FOR YOU.

...to take this 'literally' then no, I can't say i agree with that idea.

I see tradition as more than just that a collection of actions and formal behavior we are taught. I see tradition as being things that are retained over time by people involved in that 'world' or 'environment'.

A way of demonstrating/showing membership to this or that group, its what makes you or it different to the others.

....but you don't mean that do you?

You mean that as more ideological than literally.

A journey is what you make of it, so to say the tradition of moving from one thing to another in 'that venture' the progression is yours alone, yes totally understand and yes support that ideal....but ..but I'll ask, by any definition isn't that actually evolution?

How this or that Ryu came about in the first place?

[bushido_man96]

I think when you look into retaining a tradition, you need to look at why its retained, and then evaluate if it is important or not.

Take Kobudo, for instance. Those specific weapons were trained at a time when they were all that was available. Times have changed, and different weapons are available and more applicable, like knives or guns. So, would it make more sense to look at how to use and defend against those weapons of the day?

[Hawkmoon]

I think when you look into retaining a tradition, you need to look at why its retained, and then evaluate if it is important or not.

.......

Yes that was what I should have said, evaluate what is important and retain!

A much better of saying it!

Thank you!

The second part of what you say , sorry not wanting to take lighten the thread to much, but guns...reminds me of:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_23