Is my chosen karate style traditional ?

[Mitch311]

How's it going guys and girls. Quick background on myself and my training, I'm now 21, lived in New Zealand most of my life. Started seido karate at the age of 13 and lasted 1 and a bit years. (lost interest as I was young)

Reached white belt black tip. (Advanced white belt)

Started back in June last year at the same dojo. Started from the beginning again. Shortly after starting again I had knee surgery so was put straight back out.

Moved to Sydney Australia in January this year. (2013)

Found a local dojo that teaches Budokan karate. Have been attending classes for the last couple of months. Usually 4, hour classes a week. Classes consist of kata, kumite basics and combinations or whatever we can fit in to one hour.

I have a few questions on my new chosen dojo and its style.

When I first started karate, the dojo we trained in seemed very traditional. Wooden floors and very traditional looking bits and pieces everywhere. (Don't know the correct name of the special parts of the dojo)

Our sensei was Hanshi Andy Barber and by the sounds of it is of a very high level.

http://www.seido.co.nz/hanshi-andy-barber

The dojo and training style was very good and hard. Also some of the focus was on the pylosophy of karate and what it meant which I really enjoyed.

The current dojo I train at has rubber matting for the dojo floor, has a lot of members and requires contracts to join. A lot of children students but they seem to run under a seperate belt class system.

This may sound like a McDojo and I'm inclined to think it may be. The style of teaching is very different although the techniques are much the same as what I learnt. Probably because they are basics though.

My questions are, can dojos that seem like McDojos actually be as good as their more traditional counterparts. I would prefer to have trained in seido in Sydney but it is just not possible.

Also, is budokan a recognised style. I have tried googling it but it only comes up with results that directly include the dojos in Australia.

I'm wondering if I am wasting my money. I would really like to be taught karate by some one that has a real passion for it like my old sensei seemed to have.

[Karate_John]

"This may sound like a McDojo and I'm inclined to think it may be. The style of teaching is very different although the techniques are much the same as what I learnt. Probably because they are basics though.

My questions are, can dojos that seem like McDojos actually be as good as their more traditional counterparts. I would prefer to have trained in seido in Sydney but it is just not possible. "

Wood floors and bits and pieces of twinkets everywhere does not make a dojo more or less traditional. or lack thereof a McDojo. A contract can mean it's just a commercial dojo. And rubber matting might just be a safety or expense thing.

It's what the Dojos teach and the ease of gaining rank, that makes it a McDojo or not. I would be more concerned if there were 13 year old black-belts running around in the adult class and trying to teach.

From the bit i'm reading, I do not think it's a McDojo.

"is budokan a recognized style"

If it's the Chew Choo Soot Budōkan, Yes it's a recognized style by the World Karate Federation so it might be more sport focused then traditional.

[sensei8]

First of all...Welcome to KarateForums.

Seido, by itself, imho, IS a traditional art. But is the dojo traditional? Well, that's for you to decide. Watch/participate as many classes as you need to in order to come up with that decision.

[mal103]

Keep training and see how you get on, paying a lot up front is a warning sign to me but could just be the way they operate, sometimes much easier to just have an automated transfer of training fees rather than finding/collecting a few dollers(?) each lesson. Black belts don't automatically become good at business if they decide to teach.

Get what you can from it and by that time you will know if you are in a good place, maybe try other Dojo's to compare.

As far as tradition, it depends where you place the peg that says this IS traditional. At one point there were only 3 belt colours, if you go back further then you would be training in secret in someone's back yard...

Bruce Lee took good bits from many styles and made a great style/system does it matter if it wasn't traditional? It was create a while ago so has it become traditional?

[Mitch311]

Thanks John, sensei8 and mal.

I understand now that I don't have any idea what a traditional dojo is. My old seido dojo just felt really traditional compared to the kids gym feeling dojo we train at now.

Yes the budokan style is the one you mentioned. I wasn't too sure if it was an actual style or something that the owner had come up with. I presume it's roots come from shotokan ?

At the moment the training seems to be very good. I guess they take tha adults more seriously and teach us in a different way to the children and teenagers.

[sensei8]

Seido Karate is a traditional Japanese style of karate, nonetheless, it's roots are Kyokushin not Shotokan.

I think you'll enjoy Seido across the board. Train hard and train well!!

[Bryan Sensei]

Hello there,let me start off by saying there are a lot traditional martial arts to choose from,but just because a dojo has traditional hardwood or stone floors doesn't insure your going to get good quality training .I've been training in traditional Shorin ryu for most of my life and have been exposed to many different dojos and some with more traditional equipment such as,Makawara ,Iron Geta ,etc ,but the point I'm trying to make is there are a lot of dojos that does not have any of the more traditional training hojo equipment but get good quality training .Tradition does not insure quality training.

[CredoTe]

...

The current dojo I train at has rubber matting for the dojo floor, has a lot of members and requires contracts to join. A lot of children students but they seem to run under a seperate belt class system.

This may sound like a McDojo and I'm inclined to think it may be. The style of teaching is very different although the techniques are much the same as what I learnt. Probably because they are basics though.

My questions are, can dojos that seem like McDojos actually be as good as their more traditional counterparts. I would prefer to have trained in seido in Sydney but it is just not possible.

Also, is budokan a recognised style. I have tried googling it but it only comes up with results that directly include the dojos in Australia.

I'm wondering if I am wasting my money. I would really like to be taught karate by some one that has a real passion for it like my old sensei seemed to have.

We have rubber mats (simulated wood grain) for our training deck and we are anything but a McDojo... We incorporate a lot of grappling, takedowns, locks, etc so our matted floors serve good purpose. We are Karate / traditional MA, but our dojo "looks" modern: it's a modern looking business suite in a strip plaza. Not our ideal choice, but it's what we can afford, for now.

What alarms me to a red flag of McDojos is the part about signing a contract. It doesn't guarantee that your new school is a McDojo, but MA schools that make you sign a contract to join usually are McDojos.

The kid class having a separate belt system also doesn't guarantee McDojo status, but can be a warning sign depending on how they use it. In our dojo, for kids 4-8 yo, we have a certified non-style specific curriculum that is useful for introducing MA to youngsters. We are fully aware that many McDojos use this same curriculum, but the difference is how we incorporate it into our main Karate system. Essentially, our kiddie curriculum stretches 10 kyu white belt out into "mini-kyus" to slowly prepare them for our main system. "Graduates" of our kiddie curriculum get awarded with a genuine 9th kyu rank in our main system (rather than an equivalent kyu rank or jr black belt). Many McDojos use this kind of setup to stretch kyu rank time for $$$ grabs, to fast track jr black belts, etc.

As many here have suggested, attend class for a month or two and be sure to pay close attention to the amount of useful teaching / training you receive versus the cost of classes. If you're paying medium to high costs and not getting much in return, it may be time to look elsewhere. Likewise, if you're paying high costs but the training is out-of-this-world, then it's probably worth it. And, if you're paying low to medium cost, and the teaching / training is mediocre to out-of-this-world, then you're getting an even to great deal.