Two tiered format for teaching

[ShoriKid]

Who here teaches different material to kids and adults? Not just different application, but completely different things? If you do this, what sort of troubles does it cause, what sort of troubles does it avoid? if you don't do this, what troubles does this avoid, what troubles does it cause?

I've been considering a break in the kata teaching between adults and children's classes. Right now a kihon style kata and taikyoko show are part of the children's class which is not in the adults. Ground work is limited to basic positions for the upper belts and maybe three throws total. These aren't the only changes, but they are some easily spotted ones. In my head there is a complete break between children's classes and adult's training. Kata for the kid's go through the pinan/Heian series up to Naihanchi sho. Adults start with Nainhanchi sho through san and Bassai Dai. Once they reach black belt they have the option of working on an instructor's training, during part of which they learn the heian kata if they didn't come up through the kid's class. Am I crazy for thinking this way or do other folks out there work with something similar?

[tallgeese]

I won't pretend to be able or qualified to comment on kata selection for your question

That said, I have gotten the chance to teach both adults and children around the systems I train in and I can tell you that the answer is a wholehearted yes. I teach different things. Totally.

For kids, most combative applications are removed. Destructions, joint manipulations, striking to certain areas, ect. is all taken out. They focus on stance, movements, striking and all the things that go with that. Also, I didn't focus on teaching the kids combative mindset.

With the adults all those things are on the table. Additionally, the adults get more spontaneous response training and scenario based work.

I don't think you're crazy at all. It's very worth your time to separate a kids system from the adults.

[ninjanurse]

I teach the same base (basics/kata/one-steps) to kids and adults but eliminate knife skills and the more "adult" subject matter until they reach advanced levels. By that time they have usually proven they are a serious student and are allowed to begin learning the rest of the curriculum so that when they are eligible to take their Black Belt test everyone is on the same page.

[sensei8]

I won't pretend to be able or qualified to comment on kata selection for your question

That said, I have gotten the chance to teach both adults and children around the systems I train in and I can tell you that the answer is a wholehearted yes. I teach different things. Totally.

For kids, most combative applications are removed. Destructions, joint manipulations, striking to certain areas, ect. is all taken out. They focus on stance, movements, striking and all the things that go with that. Also, I didn't focus on teaching the kids combative mindset.

With the adults all those things are on the table. Additionally, the adults get more spontaneous response training and scenario based work.

I don't think you're crazy at all. It's very worth your time to separate a kids system from the adults.

Solid post Alex, and I concur, as well as mimic your methodology concerning said topic at hand, wholeheartedly across the board.

Teaching Kata to children isn't much more different than teaching kata to adults. Both, kids and adults, learn the kata's the same way, train in kata the same way, and develop the kata the same way.However, the Bunkai for children is absent of what Alex was referring to with the destruction's, joint manipulations, striking to certain areas, etc, all taken out, and with the emphasis more on 1-3 step self-defenses.

[Wastelander]

Our curriculum for children is the same as the curriculum for the adults, but broken up into smaller chunks (the kids get "training belts" with a white stripe down the middle between each rank) and they don't learn the same kata applications. We do make sure to teach the kids functional applications, and we stress the importance of self control and when it is okay to use your karate, but we take out some of the more dangerous techniques until they are teenagers.

[CredoTe]

No, you're not crazy for working out a lesson plan / teaching curriculum that makes sense to you. In my area, most Karate schools that teach the Matsubayashi-Ryu / Shorin-Ryu kata teach them in high quantity / rapid succession. As in, by the time a student of theirs is advanced kyu (3rd - 1st kyu), the student may have been shown almost all the kata. In our dojo, the kata curriculum is much slower to reinforce the quality of skill in a kata, rather than just speed-learning them for one reason or another (typically to look good in tournaments).

tallgeese wrote:

I won't pretend to be able or qualified to comment on kata selection for your question

That said, I have gotten the chance to teach both adults and children around the systems I train in and I can tell you that the answer is a wholehearted yes. I teach different things. Totally.

For kids, most combative applications are removed. Destructions, joint manipulations, striking to certain areas, ect. is all taken out. They focus on stance, movements, striking and all the things that go with that. Also, I didn't focus on teaching the kids combative mindset.

With the adults all those things are on the table. Additionally, the adults get more spontaneous response training and scenario based work.

I don't think you're crazy at all. It's very worth your time to separate a kids system from the adults.

Solid post Alex, and I concur, as well as mimic your methodology concerning said topic at hand, wholeheartedly across the board.

Teaching Kata to children isn't much more different than teaching kata to adults. Both, kids and adults, learn the kata's the same way, train in kata the same way, and develop the kata the same way.However, the Bunkai for children is absent of what Alex was referring to with the destruction's, joint manipulations, striking to certain areas, etc, all taken out, and with the emphasis more on 1-3 step self-defenses.

Great posts, and I agree with you both, sensei8 and tallgeese. The only thing I would add to this is that our Youth (9-15yo) classes are not quite as physically demanding as our Adult classes. While many kids like physically demanding activity (to be honest, many NEED physically demanding activity ), we find that kids get quickly bored when we try it. Now, we don't let them off easy, no way...

Our curriculum for children is the same as the curriculum for the adults, but broken up into smaller chunks (the kids get "training belts" with a white stripe down the middle between each rank) and they don't learn the same kata applications. We do make sure to teach the kids functional applications, and we stress the importance of self control and when it is okay to use your karate, but we take out some of the more dangerous techniques until they are teenagers.

We do something similar for our Kids (4-8yo) classes. We incorporate a certified curriculum (non-Matsubayashi, non-style-specific) for our wee youngsters that essentially takes 10th kyu white belt and stretches it out to 10 "mini-kyus" (some would say this is just a $$$ grab, but there's more to it than that). They don't learn any kata, but are taught basics of movement and mobile stances (no statue stance training), balance, coordination, stranger danger, etc. We impart the basics of bunkai/oyo through kihon-like drills and games. All moves, waza, bunkai/oyo, etc are are targeted for their age levels.

Once they advance to the 3rd "mini-kyu", we start showing them the basic moves / waza of Fyukugata Ichi. When they test for graduation from this kid curriculum (as a 1st "mini-kyu"), everything they learned through the "mini-kyus" plus Fyukugata Ichi is tested. When they graduate, they are awarded with a Matsubayashi-Ryu 9th Kyu ranking. It's a great way to transition from a non-style-specific kid curriculum to our Matsubayashi-Ryu system.

[Nidan Melbourne]

At my dojo we don't really teach anything different between juniors and seniors. Both 'tiers' learn the same content, but the adults get two katas instead of the one for juniors (at gradings adults should be able to do those two katas well and the next one in the sequence but at a lower standard, and similar in juniors).

In the adults class we also teach how to fight from the "clinch" and ground fighting. Along those lines we also teach them chokes, arm bars, locks and throws. The we sometimes show simple locks to the juniors, and how to defend yourself on the ground. But nothing too major due to the fact that they aren't mature enough to understand much more on the topic.