Building muscle that directly applies to fighting!

[Wastelander]

Just a comment,

I asked on a different post, if any one wanted to share their functional workout.

No replies..

I'm afraid I tend to workout with a very loose plan--I make sure to get in a few things that I feel I need to do, and everything else happens on a whim--so I may not be much help. I can list the exercises I include in my workouts, though. Some of it would fall under "functional" and some of it would not, but I would argue that all of it supports a function of my martial arts.

Kata (sometimes Sanchin or Seiunchin while gripping 5lb plates)

Makiwara

Chi-ishi exercises (several variations)

Bagwork and/or mitts (depending on whether I have a partner or not)

Push-ups (several variations)

Pull-ups (several variations)

Dips

Lunges with punches or kicks

Fighter press (pressing forward while staying in a fighting stance)

Punches with resistance bands or weights

Sit-ups or vee-sits with punches

Weighted crunches or weighted twisting sit-ups (currently a 25lb plate)

Kettlebell swings (several variations)

Medicine ball overhead toss and slams

Squat jumps and/or barbell-weighted squats

Barbell rows

Deadlifts

Overhead press

Bench press (sometimes barbell and sometimes alternating-arm dumbbell)

Punches with hikite (chamber) on the cable crossover machine

[Kuma]

I'm hazy on how people think muscle will slow them down. It's a bit like assuming that a Geo Metro sucompact will go faster than a Ferrari because the engine of the Ferrari is so much heavier.

Speed comes from having a good power to weight ratio, and muscle adds lots of power.

It's typically people inexperienced with strength and conditioning with these claims. Take a look at how some very large NFL players have super quick 40 times or bodybuilders who can do full splits and you'll see most of these myths lack any real credibility.

[xo-karate]

Kata (sometimes Sanchin or Seiunchin while gripping 5lb plates)

Makiwara

Chi-ishi exercises (several variations)

Bagwork and/or mitts (depending on whether I have a partner or not)

Push-ups (several variations)

Pull-ups (several variations)

Dips

Lunges with punches or kicks

Fighter press (pressing forward while staying in a fighting stance)

Punches with resistance bands or weights

Sit-ups or vee-sits with punches

Weighted crunches or weighted twisting sit-ups (currently a 25lb plate)

Kettlebell swings (several variations)

Medicine ball overhead toss and slams

Squat jumps and/or barbell-weighted squats

Barbell rows

Deadlifts

Overhead press

Bench press (sometimes barbell and sometimes alternating-arm dumbbell)

Punches with hikite (chamber) on the cable crossover machine

Nice list of movements.

Maybe I should have asked about a more specific are - like functional workouts to enhance punches - or grappling. Same movement has very different results with different combinations of load, rest and reps. (And developing punches is not a hand - arm thing - so this might be a difficult issue to discuss.)

But thanks Wastelander for you reply .

[bushido_man96]

A standard weight training protocol, like Stronglifts 5x5, Starting Strength, or Wendler 5/3/1, are good protocols to use to build strength. And all that strength will lend itself to fighting and the Martial Arts.

I'm talking about movements that don't slow you down with extra bulk.

The only way you'll get slower from extra bulk is through diet. Being strong doesn't slow you down.

Exactly. This is the biggest misunderstanding about weight training out there, and especially misunderstood by Martial Artists who are scared of becoming "slow." That, and the idea of "bulking up." One will not bulk up significantly without altering caloric intake. I put this in bold, because its the part of the equation that really has to change in order to add bulk. Now, it is true that lifting weights for strength will add some muscle mass. But the "bulk up" that most Martial Artists fear happening won't happen unless there is a change in caloric intake, i.e., caloric increase. There is a saying in weight lifting circles; "eat big to get big." Its true, and works, too. Now, as a practicing Martial Artist, if one does not adjust their diet to reflect their training, then that significant bulk won't be added, like is commonly feared.

[bushido_man96]

Personally, I used to do only "functional movement" strength training and bodyweight exercises. I did get stronger than I was, of course, but I have gotten stronger still since adding barbell training (based on StrongLifts 5x5, actually), and I haven't gotten any slower. Now I do a combination of the two, and it seems to be working quite well for me. There might be a point where you get too bulky to move quickly, regardless of whether that bulk is muscle or fat, but I don't think I have the body type to pack on that much muscle and as long as I train to promote fast-twitch muscle fiber development, I should maintain/improve my speed, regardless. I've seen plenty of very muscular people who are very fast, so it can certainly be done.

Yes, most people can gain a lot of muscle with a negligible effect on speed. Eventually, if your shoulders get to big your arms lose range of motion. If your upper legs get too muscular your kicks lose height. If your biceps and triceps get too large, your punches will slow down.

Is there proof to these claims? You lose range of motion by not stretching. Guys with big, strong legs can still kick high; Van Damme comes to mind. Wesley Snipes and Michael Jai White are big guys, too, but they kick well. I'm sure there are many more I am missing, but you can see big guys compete in the old K-1s, and they had some big, strong legs, too. Still kick high and kick well.

Edited March 20, 2013 by bushido_man96

[JusticeZero]

Yeah, the bulk I don't see.

these pictures are probably the outer limit of what you could possibly get without changing your diet and such building up strength. (This is an estimate based on correcting for specialized diet with another specialized diet.)

These people are not absurdly bulky. And they spent a huge amount of time and effort getting to the point they're at.

And even if you did gain bulk - it's all "engine weight". Putting a bigger and heavier motor in a vehicle typically doesn't slow it down, it speeds it up.

[Wastelander]

Personally, I used to do only "functional movement" strength training and bodyweight exercises. I did get stronger than I was, of course, but I have gotten stronger still since adding barbell training (based on StrongLifts 5x5, actually), and I haven't gotten any slower. Now I do a combination of the two, and it seems to be working quite well for me. There might be a point where you get too bulky to move quickly, regardless of whether that bulk is muscle or fat, but I don't think I have the body type to pack on that much muscle and as long as I train to promote fast-twitch muscle fiber development, I should maintain/improve my speed, regardless. I've seen plenty of very muscular people who are very fast, so it can certainly be done.

Yes, most people can gain a lot of muscle with a negligible effect on speed. Eventually, if your shoulders get to big your arms lose range of motion. If your upper legs get too muscular your kicks lose height. If your biceps and triceps get too large, your punches will slow down.

Is there proof to these claims? You lose range of motion by not stretching. Guys with big, strong legs can still kick high; Van Damme comes to mind. Wesley Snipes and Michael Jai White are big guys, too, but they kick well. I'm sure there are many more I am missing, but you can see big guys compete in the old K-1s, and they had some big, strong legs, too. Still kick high and kick well.

I assume that you are referring to me saying "there might be a point where you get too bulky to move quickly"? If so, I can tell you that I don't have proof, which is why I said "might"--I have known a couple people who bulked up and got slower, but that's all. Just an anecdotal observation and musing on my part . I definitely agree that being muscular doesn't make you slow, I was merely thinking out loud that there may be a point of diminishing returns.

[Evil Dave]

Bulk and Speed! Yes you can be big and bulky and still be quick. It all depends upon your conditioning. If you only train the heavy lifts and isolation exercises you will be slow, no matter how big or small you are. If you add explosive exercises to your heavy lift training you can remain fast, even while bulking up. Now that does not mean Mr. Olympia bulk {add special diet, pills and needles...}! If you take a close look at the lift training for Olympic lifters and Power lifters you will notice they not only lift big, but they also add speed movements including various plyometric exercises and speed lifting. The good Power lifters also time their lifts and during training practice slow and fast lifts, remember: the quicker the lift the sooner it over with.

What does this mean for fighters? We can bulk up, and most competitive fighters need to... and not lose any speed if we include speed and power exercises in our conditioning program. Remember that power ~ and this is what we are looking for as fighters ~ is speed x strength. This means that we need to add strength exercises to our conditioning program, not isolation exercise.

[Evil Dave]

Functional training and functional exercises. Before we go to far into a discussion about them we should define what is 'functional training'! What is functional training? What I see it as training our body through the basic movements:

lifting ~ squat, deadlift

pushing ~ pushup, shoulder press, bench press

pulling ~ pullups, rows

rotating ~ any turning/twisting movements of the core

Next, what is a functional exercise? That depends upon the activities you are preparing for. Above I have added a couple of examples for each of the bodies basic movements, there are plenty more. One thing about functional training/exercise is not to fall into the trap of only doing a couple of exercises that you like. You need vary your training so your body and mind do not become stale. Also, the hardest part, train your weaknesses and the exercises you do not like doing! This will give you your most bang for the training buck.

[xo-karate]

Please do not misunderstand this. I am not saying that bulk is bad. This is just a comment why bulk might not be the best option.

First there is no question about the fact that stronger you are more ability you have to move faster.

BUT the correlation of being big and being strong is not so straight forward. You don't have to have bulky muscle to be strong. And there is also a question of optimal muscle being strong for moving your body.

In strength training you can build strength, muscle mass or endurance. (There is a relation with muscle mass and strength. I think it that muscle mass give you the maximum ability - bigger you muscle are the more you are able to lift, but big muscle does not mean that you have all your ability in use - you cannot max out. With smaller muscle your nervous system can be in top shape and you can max out to quite a good about. And as combat sports often needs relative strength, this can be enough or better than bulky, heavy dude.)

Just an idea - I'd like to be the bulky heavy dude, with 5% fat

and perfect coordination and flexibility - but ...