Rank for life

[Dobbersky]

In my School, its my rules and anyone who has earned black belt can wear a Black belt whilst training, they will need to test for 1st Dan in My Style but that would be the first grade they would aspire too. learning all the kihon etc upto that level then progressign from there.

Although it wont be 6 months to 18 months - minimum time is 3 1/2 years training

OSU

[Evil Dave]

Its a good analogy however for some professional qualifications you have to show that you remain up-to-date with things and are maintaining your skill level. For example, my mother's a chemistry graduate but because she hasn't been in the lab for 25+ years and hasn't had any training since graduating, no-one in their right mind would consider her for a lab position because she wouldn't be able to demonstrate competency. She has a chemistry degree but is not an active chemist. A blackbelt who hasn't been training and likewise wouldn't be shown to be competent would have to train to get back to that level.

Yes, but nobody is taking away your mothers chemistry degree. When I come back to practicing I know I will be at the back of the class. I will be wearing my black belt, but I do not expect to be one of the club's black belts / instructors etc. I would hope that I have the time and smarts to 'warm-up' a little before my first class, but with different styles and instructors I'm not sure how far that will get me. I also know that when ever and where ever I end up I will have something to contribute to my new club and the smarts or ability to absorb even more.

[DWx]

Its a good analogy however for some professional qualifications you have to show that you remain up-to-date with things and are maintaining your skill level. For example, my mother's a chemistry graduate but because she hasn't been in the lab for 25+ years and hasn't had any training since graduating, no-one in their right mind would consider her for a lab position because she wouldn't be able to demonstrate competency. She has a chemistry degree but is not an active chemist. A blackbelt who hasn't been training and likewise wouldn't be shown to be competent would have to train to get back to that level.

Yes, but nobody is taking away your mothers chemistry degree. When I come back to practicing I know I will be at the back of the class. I will be wearing my black belt, but I do not expect to be one of the club's black belts / instructors etc. I would hope that I have the time and smarts to 'warm-up' a little before my first class, but with different styles and instructors I'm not sure how far that will get me. I also know that when ever and where ever I end up I will have something to contribute to my new club and the smarts or ability to absorb even more.

That'd be why I'd use the term "non-active" blackbelt . If you trained you could be reinstated to that rank but at this time you don't demonstrate the knowledge or skill of a blackbelt.

If you are willing to stand at the back with the white belts and recognise that you aren't one of the club's blackbelts why would you need to wear your belt at all? You yourself know you used to be that rank, why do other people need to see it too? In a similar vein to a previous thread, would people value your opinion more if you were wearing the belt as opposed to wearing a white belt even if they knew of your prior training?

(I'm not disagreeing with you or suggesting you shouldn't, just trying to provoke some discussion )

[ashworth]

I agree that once you gain your grade, the you are always that grade, and would let them wear that grade if they came to my class again.

do you think that this should be the same for the lower rank belts? so far you have only mentioned black belts... what about say a yellow belt, or any other colour?

[Kuma]

Its a good analogy however for some professional qualifications you have to show that you remain up-to-date with things and are maintaining your skill level. For example, my mother's a chemistry graduate but because she hasn't been in the lab for 25+ years and hasn't had any training since graduating, no-one in their right mind would consider her for a lab position because she wouldn't be able to demonstrate competency. She has a chemistry degree but is not an active chemist. A blackbelt who hasn't been training and likewise wouldn't be shown to be competent would have to train to get back to that level.

She still earned the degree. All she would need to do is to renew her studies and train hard to get back up to that level. Same with any black belt who has returned after a long stint off.

[Reaper6]

The value of your rank is a personal thing. A Dan ranking can be a milestone where you feel the great accomplishment because of the immense effort put into it, and the steep requirements to obtain it. Conversely, it can be devalued, and given away with a price tag on it. I believe that what you earn, you earn, and only the individual can truly know that. I have always believed rank to be an inward assessment, not so much how it placed me amongst my peers, but more to a level of understanding myself, and how the techniques learned, applied to me. Achieving a goal can never be taken away. Whatever level you are at in your training, it is an honest assessment of self that lets you know where you stand.

[Harkon72]

Thanks Guys, these posts have answered a question I was struggling with over the last 6 months. I am a Nidan in Shorinji Karate, I am now on my way to a second Dan grade in a new style. I feel better about it now.

[DWx]

She still earned the degree. All she would need to do is to renew her studies and train hard to get back up to that level. Same with any black belt who has returned after a long stint off.

Yes she or anyone else could return to that status with training; the blackbelt or any other qualification can't be taken away from you once you receive it and you could definitely get back to that level if you put the time and effort in. But in that stint off isn't the qualification of a reduced value compared to someone who is active? How can you call yourself something without being able to demonstrate the knowledge or skill of somebody who is that rank?

Thanks Guys, these posts have answered a question I was struggling with over the last 6 months. I am a Nidan in Shorinji Karate, I am now on my way to a second Dan grade in a new style. I feel better about it now.

I think it was one of your posts which gave me the idea for the topic, thanks

What did you think about the question before/after reading everyone's posts?

[wagnerk]

Personally I believe that your rank is not just for life...

1. The martial arts is not just about katas, strikes and throws. It's about self development and improvement. After a break you may not remember some things or may not be able to perform to a certain level, but would your resolve or will be any weaker than someone else who hasn't had a break? Also

2. If it was the case that rank was only for a certain period, why haven't we stripped all the martial artists who have passed already? Eg Funakoshi who was a 5th dan (highest rank at the time), is still regarded as that rank.

[Harkon72]

I agree with both these points. Thanks for starting this post, it's an interesting topic.